How to verify authenticity of Rolex "full set" minus original certificate

[FrançoisCzapek]

"Walk down to RSC, and maybe you can confirm if the Rolex is legit." - This is exactly what I was asking (not whether you should buy a watch without papers), especially since I'm in Singapore anyway.

"It’s very suspicious that it’s a “full set”, but missing the most important document. That doesn’t make sense." - Yes I was going to ask the store if there's some odd story, and ask people here if there's some Rolex specific explanation such as wanting to withhold the identity of the seller even at the cost of having a discount to the sale price.

"Some here think papers are worth a couple hundred and others a couple thousand, and still others who say they won't buy without papers no matter what." - This is exactly what I'm trying to understand. Obviously it makes no sense to consider a higher end model with a discount of $500 for the missing document, but I'm trying to understand at which point it becomes attractive.

[FrançoisCzapek]

Originally Posted by Oldfellow

I don’t know about a discount range, but I am fairly confident that a discount will not ease your mind with the concerns you have. Good luck with your decision.

I've decided to tune out the more extreme comments here, for starters!

[trackingtime]

Originally Posted by KatGirl

I would not buy that watch. It’s very suspicious that it’s a “full set”, but missing the most important document. That doesn’t make sense. Why would the previous owner keep the unimportant bits, but discard the proof of authenticity. Find another example. My 2 cents,

Kat


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

in the good old days, nobody keep the boxes and everything in them. they just toss it out after the warranty ends

that's why theres more watch only than complete set in the world of vintage rolexes

full set vintage rolexes are worth way more due to it's scarcity

*to add*
boxes, manuals and tags can be added on to a watch only, to make it more attractive.
you can find almost every accessories for rolex except the original cert/card that matches the serial

[trackingtime]

Originally Posted by FrançoisCzapek

"Walk down to RSC, and maybe you can confirm if the Rolex is legit." - This is exactly what I was asking (not whether you should buy a watch without papers), especially since I'm in Singapore anyway.

"It’s very suspicious that it’s a “full set”, but missing the most important document. That doesn’t make sense." - Yes I was going to ask the store if there's some odd story, and ask people here if there's some Rolex specific explanation such as wanting to withhold the identity of the seller even at the cost of having a discount to the sale price.

"Some here think papers are worth a couple hundred and others a couple thousand, and still others who say they won't buy without papers no matter what." - This is exactly what I'm trying to understand. Obviously it makes no sense to consider a higher end model with a discount of $500 for the missing document, but I'm trying to understand at which point it becomes attractive.

rolex singapore will not authenticate the service papers nor the watch

your best bet is to send it for a service quote, you can reject the service and a fee is payable.

[FrançoisCzapek]

What happens if the store says they're happy for you to do that, after you make the purchase and they turn over what papers come with the watch?

[trackingtime]

Originally Posted by FrançoisCzapek

What happens if the store says they're happy for you to do that, after you make the purchase and they turn over what papers come with the watch?

what you mean turn over? as long they agree that you send the watch back to RSC for a check. you're free to do so.

chances are in Singapore, nobody is going to screw you over, it's a small country as you know

plus, given the wealth of the country, nobody is going to want to face jail time for couple thousands of dollars because everything is on record and easy to trace back

i am a grey dealer here and so far, nobody has try to screw me, for the last decade.

[Il Ciclone]

The Box and Papers are unsubstantial if you are buying from a reputable dealer, i.e., somewho who is known, internationally and will refund you for any discrepancies with the watch even up to ten years down the line (it happens if you service a watch years after purchase and find out parts in the watch are replaced, aftermarket and so the original price becomes void. A reputable dealer will apologize and return the original sum you had paid).

When it comes to ROLEX even Rolex and AD no longer authenticate timepieces, they are unable to tell unless:
*The watch is taken apart and inspected under microscopic magnification
*The bracelet is removed and the serial number is checked against the bracelet, ie., bracelet is same stock and year as watch case...

The Rolex people will not offer this service and since the guarantees are no longer under name, warranty, people resell watches all the time, they buy list price and run to resell for a profit.

The Daytona (Pandas) and Submariners are notorious for counterfits that even ADs cannot tell apart,

You would be taking a huge risk buying such a watch, you have no idea if it's:
*A frankenwatch - best case scenario
* A Replica , High End Fake
* Original but sold or lost and so incase you go to service it Rolex will keep the watch because it was reported stolen or lost anywhere in the world previously.

Your options to protect yourself are:
*Have the Person selling you the watch write THE SERIAL NUMBER OF THE WATCH ONTO THE RECEIPT he/she gives you in exchange for your money. Incase something goes wrong, you can prove that he/she sold you the timepiece and follow through in a legal manner

*Have a service check on the watch. (FULL DISCLAIMER: I am not affiliated to CRM or know any of the owners, I simply watch their channel on YOUTUBE)
CRM Jewelers Miami has a system where they take the watch apart inspect the pieces under a micrscope and tell you of any discrepancies in the watch, and they also run the serial number through the US Nationwide Database to ensure the timepiece was not reported lost or stolen.
If you can find such as service in Singapore have it done, it will SAVE YOU ALOT down the run. The service should cost around 350-400 USD.
If the seller is legit, he/she will gladly drop the watch off to have the inspection done, you pay the 400 USD but it will save you thousands incase something is off... otherwise ask the seller to go 50/50 with you on authentication...

Caveat: Singapore is a super respectable market with the best of the best people around... I wouldn't worry too much, but then is always the one exception.

My two cents...
Good luck!!! Power to you!!!!

[FrançoisCzapek]

Originally Posted by trackingtime

what you mean turn over? as long they agree that you send the watch back to RSC for a check. you're free to do so.

chances are in Singapore, nobody is going to screw you over, it's a small country as you know.

encountered a dealer who says you are free to send the watch for a check - after you buy it.

you're right in terms of watch dealers but there are all sorts of scams on Carousell, as you know. Fake Taylor Swift tickets, fake high end perfumes, etc.

But you're right, hard to imagine being screwed in an actual store instead of buying from an individual on Carousell.

[FrançoisCzapek]

Originally Posted by Il Ciclone

*Have a service check on the watch. (FULL DISCLAIMER: I am not affiliated to CRM or know any of the owners, I simply watch their channel on YOUTUBE)
CRM Jewelers Miami has a system where they take the watch apart inspect the pieces under a micrscope and tell you of any discrepancies in the watch, and they also run the serial number through the US Nationwide Database to ensure the timepiece was not reported lost or stolen.
If you can find such as service in Singapore have it done, it will SAVE YOU ALOT down the run. The service should cost around 350-400 USD.
If the seller is legit, he/she will gladly drop the watch off to have the inspection done, you pay the 400 USD but it will save you thousands incase something is off... otherwise ask the seller to go 50/50 with you on authentication...

You could do this years ago, although the gray dealers claim to do this today with any stock they get, to assess both authenticity and condition. Today, you send to the Rolex service center to get a servicing quote (which could take a couple of days). I also heard a theory that you could present it at a pawnshop and ask for an estimate, no idea how effective that is.

[Kevin of Larchmont]

I’m pretty sure a pawn shop is not the best way to eliminate your doubt.

[Cambo]

Originally Posted by FrançoisCzapek

I've decided to tune out the more extreme comments here, for starters!

Spoken like a good troll. You’ve been nothing but argumentative with anyone trying to answer your “question”. Rather you seem intent on lecturing.
What a useless thread.

[KatGirl]

Originally Posted by FrançoisCzapek

"you believe that "papers" are all you need to authenticate a watch"

But I'm in Singapore

What does, “but I’m in Singapore” even mean? This thread is confusing. Use common sense. If it seems too good to be true, it isn’t true. Walk away, or risk being scammed. Your choice!

Kat


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Calatrava r]

The modern hot terms make buying used watches harder than it needs to be.

Rolex hasn't used certificates for many years. Now they supply a plastic warranty card which only sets out the warranty. The card used to have information written on it, now it's all embedded in the card to be read through scanning the card.

The watches you are looking at are used watches, having been retailed to someone else and worn. Many are years old. There is no "grey' or "gray" market to it or the dealer. If you think adding the term grey further protects you somehow or authenticates the watch, it does not. Used stuff is used stuff, most vendors of used stuff have no clue where it has been, how it has been worn, used or treated. Many of these watches have been opened and also polished or touched up by third parties.

You can buy newer watches which do not have all the booklets and plastic warranty card, but when and if you sell the watch, your universe of potential buyers, rightly or wrongly, will be much smaller. That is the mindset of most buyers in today's market.

If you opt to buy a newer used Rolex watch without the warranty card, you should argue for the best price you can. The dealers will tell you it is not a big deal when they are selling to you. But when you are selling such watches to them those same dealers, will tell it is a big deal and price their offer accordingly.

If you opt for an incomplete set, I would do it for a watch you intend to wear and keep. In reality, if you wear the watch for five years or more, it makes no difference about what it is worth down the road as the true value of any watch is in wearing it.