An Argument For Routine Maintenance...

[Tools]

A lot of confusion surrounds when to get a mechanical watch cleaned and oiled....and folks typically say, I used to have one and it ran for decades without maintenance..

This could be true..watches did used to last, seemingly, forever. But there is a scientific/technical reason for this..

Early watches were slow beat movements. They beat at 18,000 BPH or 5 ticks per second. This means that the hairspring swung one complete arc, unlocking the pallet fork in one direction, and then back again, unlocking the fork in the other direction, causing the watch to tick, or move properly..

This is all caused by a mainspring that pulls on the gear-train constantly...the pallet jewels hold the escapement wheel in place and then locks and unlocks that wheel on each half swing of the hairspring, unwinding the mainspring.

Pretty simple...

But, as the quest for more stable and precise movements came about, along with better lubricants, it was found that faster beat movements were more stable, drifted less, and were easier to regulate. As these beats increased, the faster swing of almost twice as much in a 28,800 beat movement causes the oils to be slung off parts, and drain the mainspring power faster. The obvious result was a need for stronger, and longer mainsprings that exert more of a pull on the drive train to ensure a ~42-48 hr power reserve. In the case of super high beat movements such as the Zenith 36,000BPH 10 BPS movement, the mainspring is huge and the need for a more solid (less fluid) method of lubrication is paramount or it would beat itself to death in little time. It's just this need for different oils and larger mainsprings that Rolex reduced the speed on their Zenith modified movements so they could use their standard oils and parts in their watches..

So, in a nut shell: Today we have movements that move considerably faster, essentially throwing the lubricating oils around like never before, and we have stronger mainsprings pulling harder on the entire drive-train causing more need to ensure proper lubrication to avoid metal-to-metal disintegration of parts..

I think that it is more important than ever that we ensure that our mechanical, high-beat, watches get cleaned and oiled on a more regular basis than ever before.

[cameron]

Very informative. My initial thoughts on the matter was that modern oils would be able to last longer but I can see now that I was very much mistaken. On purchasing my last watch (GMT 2 - c) the booklet recommended a service after five years which I have been planning to go along with.

[RossInIllinois]

What is the cost of just a regular service VS the cost of service with replacing a gear or two that would wear from lack of service? What I'm saying is if Rolex is going to charge me $500 for an oiling and $700 for an oiling and a failure whats the point? Might as well take your chances No? You could have an oiling service then 2 years later have a gear or spring break and be in for still another $500+ service bill. If an oiling and cleaning was like $150.00 I could see doing it. Even my Dr. doesn't get $500 for an hour of his services and I'm sure as hell not going to give that to Rolex.

[Tools]

Originally Posted by RossInIllinois

What is the cost of just a regular service VS the cost of service with replacing a gear or two that would wear from lack of service? What I'm saying is if Rolex is going to charge me $500 for an oiling and $700 for an oiling and a failure whats the point? Might as well take your chances No? You could have an oiling service then 2 years later have a gear or spring break and be in for still another $500+ service bill. If an oiling and cleaning was like $150.00 I could see doing it. Even my Dr. doesn't get $500 for an hour of his services and I'm sure as hell not going to give that to Rolex.

Interesting, and valid perspective..

I suppose it's like never going to the Dentist for a cleaning and check-up; waiting until a tooth has a big enough hole in it to warrant the cost of a trip. You could save the cost of those cleanings, and perhaps the cost of a crown or filling every couple of years could balance out...

[RossInIllinois]

Originally Posted by Tools

Interesting, and valid perspective..

I suppose it's like never going to the Dentist for a cleaning anc check-up; waiting until a tooth has a big enough hole in it to warrant the cost of a trip. You could save the cost of those cleanings, and perhaps the cost of a crown or filling every couple of years could balance out...

Indeed and lets not forget what a Rolex really is. It's just a watch.

[Safetrends]

Originally Posted by RossInIllinois

Indeed and lets not forget what a Rolex really is. It's just a watch.

If a Rolex is just a watch then a Lincoln is just a car.
I do not think so.

[mretzloff]

Good article

Is this what the five-year service is for? Does Rolex just lubricate your watch's gears?

[Tools]

Originally Posted by mretzloff

Good article

Is this what the five-year service is for? Does Rolex just lubricate your watch's gears?

Thanks...

Actually, Rolex takes the watch completely apart, checks for wear on any parts, then oils the watch at all the key parts..

The major oiling points are the pivot jewels that all the axles rotate in...and the pallet slide needs grease, and the mainspring barrel needs oil, as well as the ends of the pallet jewels that do the holding, unlocking operation.. and dozens of other points.

What you might find at your local watch repair technician is a sonic cleaning and then just oiling of the pivot points..

So, sometimes you do get what you pay for...

[mretzloff]

Originally Posted by Tools

Thanks...

Actually, Rolex takes the watch completely apart, checks for wear on any parts, then oils the watch at all the key parts..

The major oiling points are the pivot jewels that all the axles rotate in...and the pallet slide needs grease, and the mainspring barrel needs oil, as well as the ends of the pallet jewels that do the holding, unlocking operation.. and dozens of other points.

What you might find at your local watch repair technician is a sonic cleaning and then just oiling of the pivot points..

So, sometimes you do get what you pay for...

But don't you think $500-ish is a lot for an oiling? I have no problem with that (or else I wouldn't have bought my Rolex), but I just don't see where the money is going.

Would it cost more to have it tuned up every 5 years or only when something breaks?

Maybe I need to stop sounding so gosh darn cheap

[Tools]

Originally Posted by mretzloff

But don't you think $500-ish is a lot for an oiling? I have no problem with that (or else I wouldn't have bought my Rolex), but I just don't see where the money is going.

Would it cost more to have it tuned up every 5 years or only when something breaks?

Maybe I need to stop sounding so gosh darn cheap

Well...being cheap, and being frugal are not the same things..

I am not advocating a 500 dollar service every 5 years. There are plenty of old watchmakers, Rolex trained, who will do the job for much less. Typically though, the cost is double what they might charge for a "regular" watch..

I have several watches I rotate through so I am comfortable with 10 year service intervals... I would probably go ~7 if I wore it every day.

What I am saying is that the old days when a 50's or 60's Rolex is still ticking after no service at all, with little wear on the parts is gone..

What I am further saying is that Modern watches are operating at higher speeds and under more physical pressure (torque) than ever before.. Older watches had very little actual friction so could operate even without oils for quite a while.. The pull of modern mainsprings is considerably higher.. As an example.

The Omega co-axial 2500, which has had to be slowed down to 25,200 to operate, is still running so fast that the disintegration of the gear teeth is a well known phenomenon. (the original design of the co-axial was to operate at 18,000 BPH) Omega seems to have backed off their claim of 10 years without a service.

[Alcan]

Although $500 for an overhaul might sound expensive, here's what they're working with, and the lubricants required. And remember, the watch is completely disassembled to facilitate cleaning, inspection, and lubrication.

[snow_rocks]

Originally Posted by Tools

What I am saying is that the old days when a 50's or 60's Rolex is still ticking after no service at all, with little wear on the parts is gone..

What I am further saying is that Modern watches are operating at higher speeds and under more physical pressure (torque) than ever before.. Older watches had very little actual friction so could operate even without oils for quite a while.. The pull of modern mainsprings is considerably higher..

Larry, buying a '60s, '70s watch might be the ticket!

Have the watch reconditioned and then go for a decade or two without service!

I know, I know ... where do you get parts if needed?!!!

[marshallr47]

Good read Larry. Thanks.

[RossInIllinois]

What happens to the chronometer certificate once they pull it all apart like that? Wouldn't it have to undergo the whole testing process to once again be "officially certified"? Do They?

[ashu2289]

Very informative!!!!Great post

[ashu2289]

Originally Posted by RossInIllinois

What happens to the chronometer certificate once they pull it all apart like that? Wouldn't it have to undergo the whole testing process to once again be "officially certified"? Do They?

excellent question

[Dan Pierce]

Good food for thought, Larry. Thanks for sharing.
dP

[nko51]

Yes! I will have mine serviced every 5 full years, I bought mine staggered so I will always have another one to wear while one is getting serviced.

[Tools]

Originally Posted by RossInIllinois

What happens to the chronometer certificate once they pull it all apart like that? Wouldn't it have to undergo the whole testing process to once again be "officially certified"? Do They?

The chronometer certificate is meaningless...... well, not really, but almost.

Movements are submitted to COSC for a test of their capability... in mass.

In other words, there are racks and racks of watch movements, they are all rotated, heated, and cooled, and the results are either pass-fail. failed are regulated and sent back... They must pass for Rolex to be able to paint chronometer on the dial by Swiss law........nothing more.

The passed movements are fitted with dials, hands, self-wind modules, and installed in the watch case they are destined for....then they are re-regulated by Rolex, case-backs fitted, and shipped out...

COSC certification is a representation of it's capability; not an indication of it's accuracy...........once tested, they are never tested again..

[JJ Irani]

Originally Posted by Tools

The chronometer certificate is meaningless...... well, not really, but almost.

Movements are submitted to COSC for a test of their capability... in mass.

In other words, there are racks and racks of watch movements, they are all rotated, heated, and cooled, and the results are either pass-fail. failed are regulated and sent back... They must pass for Rolex to be able to paint chronometer on the dial by Swiss law........nothing more.

The passed movements are fitted with dials, hands, self-wind modules, and installed in the watch case they are destined for....then they are re-regulated by Rolex, case-backs fitted, and shipped out...

COSC certification is a representation of it's capability; not an indication of it's accuracy...........once tested, they are never tested again..

Well said, Larry. After the service, it's the watchmaker's job to get the watch running up to COSC specs again.

JJ

[meloncap78]

Thanks Larry!! Excellent observation, perfect delivery. This definitely sheds some light on why it is important to keep your timepiece maintained.

[astcell]

But in the 1970s we had cars that lasted for 100k miles an that is all. Today they will get 3x the mileage and run 3x as long.

Have watches not improved too?

[Tools]

Originally Posted by astcell

But in the 1970s we had cars that lasted for 100k miles an that is all. Today they will get 3x the mileage and run 3x as long.

Have watches not improved too?

Early car engines wore out because the use of cast iron rings, combustion by products, and loose tolerances caused them to have a relatively known life.

Today, moly rings, computer designed tolerances, metallurgy, and modern lubricants; as well as different fuel formulas to reduce combustion by products have all resulted in increased life in modern power plants.

Watches are still pretty much the same as two centuries ago, but with better tolerances, materials and oils that allow the before mentioned capability to increase the speed, and therefore accuracy and precision in the new 28,800 beat movements..

But like the car analogy, routine oil changes and maintenance is critical to achieve these higher life-cycles.

[cwru32]

may be some watchmaker can tell me why they need to disassemble the watch before putting it back together n lubricating it?!?! why they dont wash it enbloc?

Originally Posted by Tools

A lot of confusion surrounds when to get a mechanical watch cleaned and oiled....and folks typically say, I used to have one and it ran for decades without maintenance..

This could be true..watches did used to last, seemingly, forever. But there is a scientific/technical reason for this..

Early watches were slow beat movements. They beat at 18,000 BPH or 5 ticks per second. This means that the hairspring swung one complete arc, unlocking the pallet fork in one direction, and then back again, unlocking the fork in the other direction, causing the watch to tick, or move properly..

This is all caused by a mainspring that pulls on the gear-train constantly...the pallet jewels hold the escapement wheel in place and then locks and unlocks that wheel on each half swing of the hairspring, unwinding the mainspring.

Pretty simple...

But, as the quest for more stable and precise movements came about, along with better lubricants, it was found that faster beat movements were more stable, drifted less, and were easier to regulate. As these beats increased, the faster swing of almost twice as much in a 28,800 beat movement causes the oils to be slung off parts, and drain the mainspring power faster. The obvious result was a need for stronger, and longer mainsprings that exert more of a pull on the drive train to ensure a ~42-48 hr power reserve. In the case of super high beat movements such as the Zenith 36,000BPH 10 BPS movement, the mainspring is huge and the need for a more solid (less fluid) method of lubrication is paramount or it would beat itself to death in little time. It's just this need for different oils and larger mainsprings that Rolex reduced the speed on their Zenith modified movements so they could use their standard oils and parts in their watches..

So, in a nut shell: Today we have movements that move considerably faster, essentially throwing the lubricating oils around like never before, and we have stronger mainsprings pulling harder on the entire drive-train causing more need to ensure proper lubrication to avoid metal-to-metal disintegration of parts..

I think that it is more important than ever that we ensure that our mechanical, high-beat, watches get cleaned and oiled on a more regular basis than ever before.

[Z-Sub]

Originally Posted by cwru32

may be some watchmaker can tell me why they need to disassemble the watch before putting it back together n lubricating it?!?! why they dont wash it enbloc?

Well, since parts are small, I don't think it's possible to have "fittings" for grease like there are many in most cars.
It's like rebuilding engine, entire engine is disassembled, cleaned, worn or torn parts replaced and repacked.

[Tim Wells]

"Originally Posted by cwru32
may be some watchmaker can tell me why they need to disassemble the watch before putting it back together n lubricating it?!?! why they dont wash it enbloc?"

The reason for this is that a movement cannot be properly cleaned or inspected without taking it apart totally. In higher grade watches the hole jewels will have cap jewels also, especially in the escapement which is a perfect place to trap dried oil that an ultrasonic won't always remove.

Old oil, especially if it is dried up or something that has sat for 20 years and had not been overhauled since 10-20 years before it was placed in that dusty old box you just pulled it out of, you will find gummy or hard varnish that used to be oil. Older oils that we used had animal fats in them and they were particularly bad about gumming up and it didn't take no twenty years either, plus that stuff stinks.

Today we use synthetic oils and lubricants that hold up better, longer, lubricate better, have a better capillary attraction action and don't dry up like the old oils did. I learned to "peg" my jewels and I still do this even though I have various ultrasonic cleaning machines. You take a piece of orangewood or osage orange and sharpen it to a point like a pencil and stick it into the pivot holes and twirl it just like cleaning your ears with a Q-tip.

To mechanically, physically remove any ubstruction in the hole jewel and any caked up grease or what have you, I am certain that there will be no issue later on; the ultrasonic will do the rest.

I specialize in old aircraft 8 day clocks and in the case of a Hamilton 37500 that has several hundred parts in it; when you're done with it and it goes out the door, you don't want it back because of negligence or laziness on your part. Do it right,... once.

Someone mentioned something about frequency of servicing referring to old slow movements vs newer faster ones. My thinking on that is that old movements such as old gents watches and pocket watches whether they are 17+ jewel movements or low grade 7 or less jewel movements with brass train bushings; required more frequent servicing than movements of today rather than the other way around.

My reasoning for this is that the oils broke down faster then, didn't lube as well, and the tolerances were not quite as tight as now, particularly in the lower grade movements. Now compare that with a modern movement.

Hardened pivots; all of them, sapphire or ruby jewels which are both right under a diamond in hardness on a Mohs scale and they're all slicker than a bell pepper; no brass bushing can be that smooth.

The jewel holes providing they're not cracked don't wear, the pivots do if dirty or not oiled properly. Modern synthetic lubricants are far superior to anything made in the past when every town had a few watchmakers to go around and didn't have to sell jewelry to stay busy. The life of oils are much better now and consequently do their job longer and to me the required maintenance schedule on any modern high grade movement is less frequent than in days of old for all those reasons.

My diesel truck with dinosoar oil will require changing 2-3 times more often than when I use fully synthetic oil. This is because it wears a lot better and doesn't break down and this isn't from some sales hype, I actually have my oil tested to see what the facts are. I don't use anything but synthetic for a reason and that's a fact. Same goes for watches, we have better stuff nowdays and things work better, last longer and require less upkeep because of it.

Sorry for the novel length post.

[Dr. DiveWatch]

Great thread! How about this question....

What does everyone think about "Rolex certified" watchmakers at various upscale jewelery stores/Rolex dealers doing the service vs. sending it in to RSC for the maintenance?? Is there really such a thing? I would think it would be cheaper than sending to RSC (and perhaps quicker). I can't imagine parts being worn down & needing replaced on an every 5 year maintenance schedule. Perhaps sending to RSC for complete overhaul every 10-15 years, but have local certified watchmaker service it every 5 until then??

Anyone ever done that and been happy/satisfied knowing all Rolex parts and Rolex trained watchmaker. (I read the one post about the GMT2 maintenance at Ben Bridge and wondered).

[walds11]

I haven't done it yet, but plan on doing it with my SS Sub Date Y series. There is a well-known local guy downtown that does it. I can drop the watch off and pick it up. I wouldn't mind saving a few hundred bucks on a routine service.

Originally Posted by Dr. DiveWatch

Great thread! How about this question....

What does everyone think about "Rolex certified" watchmakers at various upscale jewelery stores/Rolex dealers doing the service vs. sending it in to RSC for the maintenance?? Is there really such a thing? I would think it would be cheaper than sending to RSC (and perhaps quicker). I can't imagine parts being worn down & needing replaced on an every 5 year maintenance schedule. Perhaps sending to RSC for complete overhaul every 10-15 years, but have local certified watchmaker service it every 5 until then??

Anyone ever done that and been happy/satisfied knowing all Rolex parts and Rolex trained watchmaker. (I read the one post about the GMT2 maintenance at Ben Bridge and wondered).

[Tools]

I have had a couple done at my local AD Watchmaker. He is Rolex trained and contracted.. The results were as good as I have had from an RSC.. The only issue is that he doesn't give it back in a Rolex service box, and you don't get the little pouch. However, since the price is a basic flat-rate, it is the same as an RSC cost. So, you can see the work being done and it doesn't take as long...but you do miss some of the RSC experience..

Originally Posted by Dr. DiveWatch

Great thread! How about this question....

What does everyone think about "Rolex certified" watchmakers at various upscale jewelery stores/Rolex dealers doing the service vs. sending it in to RSC for the maintenance?? Is there really such a thing? I would think it would be cheaper than sending to RSC (and perhaps quicker). I can't imagine parts being worn down & needing replaced on an every 5 year maintenance schedule. Perhaps sending to RSC for complete overhaul every 10-15 years, but have local certified watchmaker service it every 5 until then??

Anyone ever done that and been happy/satisfied knowing all Rolex parts and Rolex trained watchmaker. (I read the one post about the GMT2 maintenance at Ben Bridge and wondered).

[larrysb]

Originally Posted by cwru32

may be some watchmaker can tell me why they need to disassemble the watch before putting it back together n lubricating it?!?! why they dont wash it enbloc?

Can't get it truly clean if it isn't disassembled, and you can't put the oil where it is supposed to go.

I'm not a watchmaker, but for fun, I took a discarded Wakmann aircraft clock apart to see if I could get it running again. The Wakmann clocks are 8-day windup, 4-jewel swiss made movements. The design is just like a watch, but on a somewhat larger scale, (fits in a 2" panel cutout hole), so it is somewhat easier to work on for a beginner. The one I took apart was made in 1975 and spent some 30 years in a light, unpressurized turbocharged twin engine airplane. So it saw all kinds of heat and cold, dry and humidity, and altitude. It stopped running.

The dirt comes from two things, the environment to some extent, and the wear products of the parts grinding against each other. Also the lubricants dry up, turn into a sticky hard goo.

Some techs clean these things assembled. Just dunk 'em in the ultrasonic cleaner, squirt some oil here and there and call it good.

But that leaves dirt where it doesn't belong and oil can't go where it does belong.

Believe me, inspite of being sealed, that poor old Wakmann was dirty inside. I first tried to sponge it off with solvent and lint-free swabs. I got some of it. Then I dunked it in the sonic cleaner. Got even more. But looking really close, there was still goo in the bushings and the jewel bearings. I could see it with a microscope. So, without a manual to go by, I took it completely apart. Sure enough, there was still dirt and goo hiding in important places. Carefully cleaned each individual part. This time, no doubt and looking at it under a microscope revealed it was sparkling clean.

Lubing it is the other side of the coin. The jewels and lubrication points take miniscule amounts of lubricants. There's no way to get the tiny amounts of oil into the cups with the gear pinions still in there. Doing so externally would certainly mean overlubing, or smearing it into places where it doesn't belong.

I didn't have the exact right lubricants on hand, but I did have some intended for instruments, which are similar. Carefully applied in the right places, no excess, no drips.

Proud to say, that Wakmann is still on the shelf on my hangar, in the cold and heat and it still keeps pretty good time, in spite of being a bit worn out.

So when it comes time, the Rolex will go to the service center, to keep it working.