Any 6542 experts feel like helping a newbie? - Update with pictures this time!

[Dr.Smellody]

Originally Posted by Haywood_Milton

It's an article I haven't completed yet, but there are some macro images you may find useful here :

https://www.miltonaires.com/7190/a-b...ng-in-progress

Insta : haywood_milton_rolex

Fantastic article and pictures!!!

[joli160]

I hate to be the guy that says “told you so”.

May I suggest you read up some posts from the members I mentioned so you get a better understanding about their level of expertise.

Good luck

[5512Sub]

More pictures!

[77T]

Have not seen that type of stamping inside a legit 6542 caseback.



Here is a genuine one…

[5pastfive]

I would recommand that you post the thread with the pictures on the vintage rolex forum and most probably, you will get an opinion from Xeramic who is an extremely knowledgeable and kind person. His assessment is highly valued by the community.

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[offrdmania]

As much as the OP is on the defense, im wondering if he has already bought the watch and is hunting for confirmation. Unfortunately, he is not getting the feedback he was hoping for.

Some of the most knowledgeable experts on this site and in vintage collectors circles have already spoken and the OP blows them off for assurance that he has received from other sources who are still to be named. I just dont get it?

[CTech]

The new photos of the case and case back are disturbing as they are not what you would expect for a IV.55 watch.

Per has said that he doubts the dial, and I think he is right. 77T justifiably doubts the case back is genuine, and I am now doubting the case as I think a genuine 1955 watch would probably have BREVET + with the model number underneath not the model number with REGISTERED DESIGN underneath.

The case engravings don't convince me either and have certain characteristics that resemble the replica cases available from Vietnam.

My summary so far, based on the available photos, is:

Case - Suspect replica
Case Back - Probably replica
Dial - Wrong for year, possibly replica
Hour, Minute and Second hands - Replacements, unknown origin
24 hour hand - unlikely to be genuine but possible
Bezel - Probably replica
Bezel Insert - Aftermarket replica
Papers - ?

It's all adding up to be more red flags than in Moscow on a breezy day, so I'm interested in seeing how the other opinions stack up against our collective assessments.

Please feel free to argue against any of these points as I am not interested in who is right and who is wrong, but more interested in getting to the bottom of this and understanding what the OP is looking at.

[5512Sub]

I have not purchased the watch, I don't know what I can say to prove that.

I'm not trying to be defensive or blow anyone off. I can't sit down and write out a proper response at the moment but should be able to this evening.

I am new to this forum, so my apologies for not knowing who's opinion is more trustworthy than others. I absolutely respect and appreciate the input, especially from the veterans here.

This is the first Radium Rolex Ive earnestly considered due do the circumstances in which I came across it.

As far as sources, I just don't want to cause problems. I emailed info@rolexpassionreport.com, and they told me the watch looked good and the bezel was correct. I can only assume that person was Philipp Stahl.

So again, my apologies but that made me pause enough to reconsider and seek more advice.

Originally Posted by offrdmania

As much as the OP is on the defense, im wondering if he has already bought the watch and is hunting for confirmation. Unfortunately, he is not getting the feedback he was hoping for.

Some of the most knowledgeable experts on this site and in vintage collectors circles have already spoken and the OP blows them off for assurance that he has received from other sources who are still to be named. I just dont get it?

[alwayshere]

Originally Posted by 5512Sub

I have not purchased the watch, I don't know what I can say to prove that.

I'm not trying to be defensive or blow anyone off. I can't sit down and write out a proper response at the moment but should be able to this evening.

I am new to this forum, so my apologies for not knowing who's opinion is more trustworthy than others. I absolutely respect and appreciate the input, especially from the veterans here.

This is the first Radium Rolex Ive earnestly considered due do the circumstances in which I came across it.

As far as sources, I just don't want to cause problems. I emailed info@rolexpassionreport.com, and they told me the watch looked good and the bezel was correct. I can only assume that person was Philipp Stahl.

So again, my apologies but that made me pause enough to reconsider and seek more advice.

No need to apologise IMO. Buying vintage, especially the very early, very collectible and sought after pieces are a complete landmine. Don't rush it.

The reality is plenty of nefarious people out there trying to make a buck so using this forum for insight is particularly important. Rarely would anyone here intentionally deceive you, never en masse anyway.

Some of the members here have done countless studies on these older pieces, seen them in the flesh and some own them so a good resource to leverage off.

Keep posting photos, particularly at different angles and different areas of the watch. The puzzle is coming together and I think the consensus is its not an original piece. Remember though, members here won't try to convince you to the end. They give their advice and they'll move on. We are all volunteers here. No one makes a coin giving you (or anyone) advice. At some point, you will have to make your own call.

Good luck.

[alwayshere]

Originally Posted by scooba

Ditto

Originally Posted by baumare

I like your style, I became a supporter after your post on the fleamarket Tudor.
Thank you for reminding everybody the utility of this Forum

i'm pretty shameless when it comes to shaking the tin but honestly, the amount of money people save by not been swindled using this forum's resource would in the millions by now. $30 is a small lesson to pay to avoid that tumble.

I'm on a roll at the moment, should I put my hand up for a marketing role at TRF?

[zapokee]

Love a popcorn thread!

[Dan S]

These threads are always a good opportunity to learn, so the more information, the better, as far as I'm concerned.

[77T]

Originally Posted by zapokee

Love a popcorn thread!

That’ll be $30, please…


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[rootbeer7]

OP The experts have spoken. The majority agree the watch is at least suspicious and in all probability not a correct watch. Tread carefully,

[SeeDweller]

Originally Posted by Dan S

These threads are always a good opportunity to learn, so the more information, the better, as far as I'm concerned.

Thank you, OP, for your tenacity in keeping this up. I thought that the different opinions at the beginning of this thread demonstrated that experts don’t make snap judgements until all the facts are in.
Also, I always note that once the assessment starts to go one way, then all the experts start to pile on like a snowball!

So, I love the idea of what you’re doing - showing everyone the comments from everyone else, and letting them all chew on it!

Just to REALLY stimulate some heat, would anyone here consider the final word being that of an “authorized Rolex Service Center”?? We’re talking big bucks here, so Pauling the $1000 it would cost to send it in would be well worthwhile. Indeed, have it go directly to Dallas! Just seems to me that having a Rolex “Seal of authenticity” would be worth volumes. And one thing for sure - it’d be interesting to se how the seller took to such a suggestion!!! (Would tell you a lot about what’s in their mind!)

Speaking of which, is the seller getting antsy with you asking all these questions? Are the new photos coming from him, or have you been visiting the piece, yourself?

Good luck!! The 6542 is my grail, and would complete my GMT collection of References. I’m loving this thread!!

[alwayshere]

Originally Posted by SeeDweller

Thank you, OP, for your tenacity in keeping this up. I thought that the different opinions at the beginning of this thread demonstrated that experts don’t make snap judgements until all the facts are in.
Also, I always note that once the assessment starts to go one way, then all the experts start to pile on like a snowball!

So, I love the idea of what you’re doing - showing everyone the comments from everyone else, and letting them all chew on it!

Just to REALLY stimulate some heat, would anyone here consider the final word being that of an “authorized Rolex Service Center”?? We’re talking big bucks here, so Pauling the $1000 it would cost to send it in would be well worthwhile. Indeed, have it go directly to Dallas! Just seems to me that having a Rolex “Seal of authenticity” would be worth volumes. And one thing for sure - it’d be interesting to se how the seller took to such a suggestion!!! (Would tell you a lot about what’s in their mind!)

Speaking of which, is the seller getting antsy with you asking all these questions? Are the new photos coming from him, or have you been visiting the piece, yourself?

Good luck!! The 6542 is my grail, and would complete my GMT collection of References. I’m loving this thread!!

The tendency for the snowballing of one way advice isn’t uncommon as once one member cites a particular flaw, it’s triggers many others to make the same comparison. You’ll be surprised how often our eyes hide features that only become apparent when told to really glare at.

RSC is also not the best with vintage pieces of this era. Frankly I put faith in members here and vintage dealers when it comes to vintages pieces.

[zapokee]

Originally Posted by alwayshere

Frankly I put faith in members here and vintage dealers when it comes to vintages pieces.

I think that's where the OP is having trouble - he's getting conflicting opinions from knowledgeable people here and elsewhere.

The snowball effect of "expert" opinions here is something I've noticed too, although we've never had a name for it before. Now we do!

[Haywood_Milton]

There is also a problem of "opinion projecting."

It has been suggested that I have given a clear opinion of the watch. Where did I ?

While entirely happy with my own two examples, I am aware of other versions with small differences, would wish for still better images and even then would not claim to know all that there is to know about 6542s. I provided the link to my article because often good pieces offer useful comparisons.

There are aspects of this watch that I do and don't like, and others where I'd like to see better or am unsure. Frankly, I'd like to have it in my hands before giving further opinion.

The "snowballing" of a projected opinion must be the most dangerous of all. I suggest we call that a "yellow snowball."

Insta : haywood_milton_rolex

[alwayshere]

I have no experience with 6542s so here to learn. This is yet to be decided it seems.

[5512Sub]

First off thank you for the active discussion and for understanding where I'm coming from. I sincerely appreciate the expert opinions here and I'm really trying to absorb everything I read.

I should have some better pictures and the Geiger reading this weekend.

The seller has been incredibly responsive and willfully is sharing any and I'll information I ask for, or if they think it's pertinent, they include.

I'll be receiving a redacted copy of the will that the watch was left in, hopefully that can show something there.

I mentioned a little about the people that told me it looked good, I'm still awaiting permission to directly list them, but I will absolutely be doing my best to share all information I received here. I just know this world of watches is a small community, words travel fast and I just don't know what I'm getting into the middle of, so with all due respect, I need to learn more before I can summerize my findings.

At the moment, the majority think it's suspicious at best. I'm here trying to convince myself it's real if the evidence is there.

The triangle on the bezel is, for sure, different than those I see on some known examples. But I've seen a few with similar marking so I ask those of you that know better.

Two questions I have for you all:
1. When a radium GMT was sent in for recall, were there replacement Bakelite bezels fitted or did they all get aluminum? If the watch was sent for recall and didn't hit the threshold, did those bezels look any different than the real hot ones?

2. I've heard conflicting reports of tritium based bakelite bezels but it seems a hotly disputed subject. Any input on the possible existence of those?

Again, this isn't to argue or disregard anyone at all, these are issues I'm actively facing in looking at this watch. So I really appreciate everyone's graciousness and willingness to look out for me as a fledgling Radium fan.

Thank you, again, for your help and the invaluable information you have so graciously shared.

[1665fan]

Originally Posted by Dan S

Amazing how these replacement parts find their way onto a watch that is sitting in a safe deposit box.

Damn grandpa back at it again Grandpas always the best fakes lol

[zapokee]

Hope we're not being Narrabeened again...

[5512Sub]

Originally Posted by zapokee

Hope we're not being Narrabeened again...

I don't know what that means, but I can assure you im being genuine here.

I collect. I've heard stories of people getting ripped off when they end up with a watch they don't know anything about.

When I meet people in the situation of having a watch they don't know about, I personally enjoy talking to them and educating them the best I can.

I did this for a person that was posting pictures of a white 1680, asking for info.

After we discuss the 1680 in detail, they mentioned another old Rolex with a "red and blue plastic spinney thing and gold writing."

I dare you to say your heart wouldn't have skipped a few beats at that moment!

Anyway, I immediately tell them that I think I know what it is, it could be incredibly valuable, but it's my grail watch that Ive loved since I first discovered them.

They send me pictures of the watch I posted here.

So to be real, this watch basically fell out of the void in to my life and I don't know what to do.

Everything inside of me says it's wrong. But also, the story tracks,the conversations have been genuine, fluid and productive. Then I get a few experts tell me it's all good.

So naturally I shat myself.

Then I came here for a reality check. And I'm just as confused as when I started but its starting to seem the best thing to do is to walk away until a sure thing comes along.

But tell me you wouldn't do some digging and ask some real questions if you were in my shoes, hahaha! You can't tell me you wouldn't want to know, for sure, what you were looking at...

Much appreciated and please, keep the conversation going if you have any constructive input at all!

[5512Sub]

Update: asking seller to agree to have the watch sent to Rolex via a Boutique, to see if they will service it.

Will post sellers response asap.

[zapokee]

I guess some people might be confused that your first post says you're a newbie, but then in #53 you say you're a collector and were advising the seller on a 1680.

I'm sure there's a reasonable explanation.

[lee fowler]

Originally Posted by 5512Sub

Update: asking seller to agree to have the watch sent to Rolex via a Boutique, to see if they will service it.

Will post sellers response asap.

This will most likely have to go to Geneva!

[SkooterNB]

Originally Posted by lee fowler

This will most likely have to go to Geneva!

And it is no guarantee... I've seen plenty frankens get passed through Rolex service just to get those 'official' papers.

Gieger that bezel when it is off the watch. Geiger the dial when the bezel is off. That's the first step on a watch this age. Additionally, there were a lot of service replacements as stated earlier in the thread, so while something may be genuine Rolex it may not have the original safe queen components.

[5512Sub]

I thought I'd clarified that, my apologies. This is the first Radium Rolex Ive ever specifically researched and looked in to earnestly.

Ive a collection of mostly mid-80's and newer sports models and one sub from 1967.

I didn't advise the person, more do gave them my opinion and told them it's worth more than the pawn shop was offering. I directed them to some resources (Chrono 24, Hodinkee article I believe and a few other things I'd found) and I shared the knowledge I do have on those particular subs.

I'm a newbie to Radium Rolex's. I'm a newbie to pre 1965 anything Rolex.

I've a feeling that people think I'm being defensive or evasive or shady. I'm really trying to learn. I love those watches and I NEVER thought I'd be in a position to consider one. I wasn't actively looking when this came along and I came into the entire situation completely unprepared.

I'll gladly share any information I can with you, just ask! But please consider that I am learning about some things for the first time and other areas I've studied pretty extensively, ie matte dial subs.

Thank you for your skepticism, I don't want to mislead or misrepresent anything, I want to learn and maybe help other learn too!

Originally Posted by zapokee

I guess some people might be confused that your first post says you're a newbie, but then in #53 you say you're a collector and were advising the seller on a 1680.

I'm sure there's a reasonable explanation.

[Juhuatai]

At this point, if the watch was truly genuine why are the sellers not approaching an auction house or a dealer? They could get a boatload of money if it's 100% original. If original, are they selling it to you at market price?

Have the seller contact a serious expert like Eric Wind or Eric Ku and get their opinion.

[antrolexsub]

It’s junk, made up of 90% Vietnamese parts