Daytona vs Omega moon watch

[amanbra]

Originally Posted by neekon

I haven't held or seen the 321 in person, but I am on the list and its a watch I will buy on the spot.
I don't know enough to state whether the 4130 is one of the best chronograph movements ever made. I have about a 7" wrist, so the Speedmaster is a great size for me.

Thats the biggest issue I have, with the Daytona and most Rolexes(and Rolex owners). These watches are not with the prices people are willing to pay, not by a long shot. The Daytona is a 12,000$ watch all day long, the 321 is a 14,000$ watch all day long. The Daytona is not and will never be a 20,000-50,000$ watch, no matter how much people want it to be.

The 4130 might be a better movement than the 321 in terms of it being modern, but I would still take the 321 for its heritage. Owning a 321 is like owning a piece of history, owning a 4130/Daytona feels like owning a target for thieves.

I think most people agree with you that the Daytona is not worth the grey market, no way in hell I’m paying grey…

The 4130 is the smallest, most robust and accurate vertical clutch automatic chrono ever made. No watch maker has come close this movement still.

321 is legendary, which is why I got it. It’s so special to me I haven’t even worn it yet… unlike the Daytona which started on my wrist day one.

You seem to have a big hate for the Daytona, strip away the hype it is an absolutely superb watch in its own right. The hype for me is unfortunate, it really shouldn’t be like this but the issue is, it is the best watch for me from a chrono lover’s perspective.

[Cabaiguan]

A Daytona at retail is a great watch but not at gray prices. Frankly, even at retail, the Speedy is my pick. Legible, hand cranker, hesalite and history. Pretty unbeatable at its price point.

[Santiago32]

Originally Posted by Chute

I’ve tried really hard to love the moon watch but every one I’ve tried on just did nothing for me.

Daytona all the way in my book. It’s automatic, waterproof, unisex and just a better looking and wearing watch in my opinion.

I know it’s sucks for new collectors who can’t get one but kudos to Omega for sticking close to the original design and making them available.

+1 speedy did nothing for me either. I feel like the case sits a bit bulky on my wrist and I’m not a fan of the bracelet and clasp.

For a non-Daytona chrono I prefer the Zenith El Primero

[neekon]

Originally Posted by amanbra

I think most people agree with you that the Daytona is not worth the grey market, no way in hell I’m paying grey…

The 4130 is the smallest, most robust and accurate vertical clutch automatic chrono ever made. No watch maker has come close this movement still.

321 is legendary, which is why I got it. It’s so special to me I haven’t even worn it yet… unlike the Daytona which started on my wrist day one.

You seem to have a big hate for the Daytona, strip away the hype it is an absolutely superb watch in its own right. The hype for me is unfortunate, it really shouldn’t be like this but the issue is, it is the best watch for me from a chrono lover’s perspective.

My hate for the Daytona is more a hate for the current Rolex market as a whole. The average watch buyer should not have to either spend 40,000$ to get a 12000$ watch, or need to build a relationship with a dealer to be graced the ability to buy a 12,000$ watch at its retail price. Also shouldn't have basically beg a dealer for the privilege of spending 12,000$ on something.

I had wanted a BLNR for 5yrs, often going in and browsing at various ADs in my area before I found an AD willing to sell me one with minimal wait and minimal purchase history. I have wanted a turquoise OP since it was released, but because im not a bit spender or willing to spend 10s of thousands on things I don't want, ill likely never get it.

The Daytona and OP are the 2 best examples of this ridiculous and outright dangerous hype culture within the watch world. A watch, no matter the brand or material should not be bought as an investment piece, I shouldn't have to worry about thieves because some asshole online is hyping up the watch I own and wear because I like wearing the watch.

If someone is wanting to buy a watch as an investment, I would kindly tell them to go fuck themselves and invest in crypto instead. Buy what you like, buy what you will wear, do not buy because its going to go up in value.

That being said, I was being harsh, if someone gave me a Daytona I would likely take it, and sell for retail. If someone offered me a Daytona to purchase at retail, I would kindly pass, or purchase and sell for what I paid.
Way too many people are getting taken advantage of buying something at an inflated price that will eventually plummet

[Kyle3130]

Originally Posted by G3Z

Speedmaster over a Daytona anyday.

Same for me.

[7enderbender]

My first real watch was a Speedmaster Auto reduced from 1990. Still wear it often today and it’s rock solid and pretty much runs +/- 0sec. I just finally treated myself to the Speedy Pro I always wanted too. And I’m not ruling out that I may get another one in the future, such as a broad arrow or one of the early 861 models, or a different color dial.
In my book the Speedy remains one of the most important modern day watches, right next to the various Rolex Sub models. I’d chose one of those over the rather impractical and illegible Daytonas any day. And what a bargain they are in comparison. Watch certified for space flight vs watch known to be worn by a Hollywood make-believe person? Easy choice.

[amanbra]

Originally Posted by neekon

My hate for the Daytona is more a hate for the current Rolex market as a whole. The average watch buyer should not have to either spend 40,000$ to get a 12000$ watch, or need to build a relationship with a dealer to be graced the ability to buy a 12,000$ watch at its retail price. Also shouldn't have basically beg a dealer for the privilege of spending 12,000$ on something.

I had wanted a BLNR for 5yrs, often going in and browsing at various ADs in my area before I found an AD willing to sell me one with minimal wait and minimal purchase history. I have wanted a turquoise OP since it was released, but because im not a bit spender or willing to spend 10s of thousands on things I don't want, ill likely never get it.

The Daytona and OP are the 2 best examples of this ridiculous and outright dangerous hype culture within the watch world. A watch, no matter the brand or material should be bought as an investment piece, I shouldn't have to worry about thieves because some asshole online is hyping up the watch I own and wear because I like wearing the watch.

If someone is wanting to buy a watch as an investment, I would kindly tell them to go fuck themselves and invest in crypto instead. Buy what you like, buy what you will wear, do not buy because its going to go up in value.

That being said, I was being harsh, if someone gave me a Daytona I would likely take it, and sell for retail. If someone offered me a Daytona to purchase at retail, I would kindly pass, or purchase and sell for what I paid.
Way too many people are getting taken advantage of buying something at an inflated price that will eventually plummet

But that’s the thing right, the GMTs Subs etc are all like this but just to a lesser extent… most average buyers cannot buy one without spending stupid amounts or going grey. No way is the GMT worth what it is on the grey market.

The whole situation is dumb. The issue is take away the branding hype etc, the watches themselves are great watches, which is why some of us want them.

If GS Omega etc would actually make watches that fit me better they’d have my money… they just don’t have many options…

[neekon]

Originally Posted by amanbra

But that’s the thing right, the GMTs Subs etc are all like this but just to a lesser extent… most average buyers cannot buy one without spending stupid amounts or going grey. No way is the GMT worth what it is on the grey market.

The whole situation is dumb. The issue is take away the branding hype etc, the watches themselves are great watches, which is why some of us want them.

If GS Omega etc would actually make watches that fit me better they’d have my money… they just don’t have many options…

You are correct, the GMT I got is overhyped as well, and sells for way more than it should on the grey market. The OP I like is the same.
My BLNR is not remotely worth the 20,000$ plus it sells for on the grey. I liked it because I was drawn to its design and look.

The whole situation isn't only dumb, its dangerous. the more rarity, the more hype and the higher the prices these items go for, the more at risk people who wear them will be. I really want an turquoise OP, but even if I was offered one, idk if I would feel comfortable wearing it with the prices the way they are right now.

I keep trying to get into GS, I have had 2, and likely selling the second one I got soon, I can't really bond with them the way I hoped I would. I love Omega, always have. I have 2 Speedmaster and 1 Seamaster. I am in the market for at least another Seamaster and possibly a gold Speedmaster, or 321 or both.

I can count on one hand the amount of Rolexes I actually like, really just the GMT, OP and DayDate. I would partially agree, they are durable, robust and accurate watches whether they have the Rolex branding or not. I would still love my BLNR whether I was able to buy it right away, or wait 5yrs.

[Dougiebaby]

Originally Posted by logo

To each their own, but…. I do not think history is the point where the Daytona has advantage here lol. Maybe I’m not reading it correctly, and certainly if you are interested in cars then perhaps that history is more relevant to you personally, but on a grand scale there is probably no more historically significant watch than the Speedmaster imo.

You are correct : you are not reading it correcting

… and I am referring to the Daytona’s history in Motorsport. To be honest, I’m not really interested in the history of space exploration. Mind you, I was born in 1966 and remember the moon landing and all of the space missions through the shuttle launches. Interestingly, a high school classmate of mine is an astronaut and holds the record for space walking and, until recently, held the record for time in space - Mike Fincke (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Fincke).

But having said all of that, I prefer motorsports, cars, and … the Daytona!


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[Dougiebaby]

Originally Posted by OrangeSport

What history does it have? Apart from the name and the fact Newman wore one I can't find anything from a casual search. I'm guessing I'm missing something though, as I've heard people mention its history several times.

Well, first, “history” of a watch is not a real draw to me no matter what watch it is … Sub, Daytona, GMT, etc.

But the “history” of the Daytona is that it is heralded as the go to watch for racing and motorsport since the late 1960’s. The Monaco would be the other go to motorsport’s watch. I happen to own both because that association is important to me.

Space exploration history may be important to you, but motorsports association is important to me.

But beyond history, the most important factor to me is … how good looking the watch is. The Speedy does not do it for me … in fact I was very underwhelmed when I first saw it in person. Whereas, the Daytona is sex on the wrist from the very first time I saw one (probably late 1980’s) to now.

Oh, and I also own a Sub and GMT but couldn’t really care what their “history” is … I just find them beautiful.





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[Point2Point]

I own a black dial Daytona C and five Speedmasters - vintage cal 321 Ed White, vintage cal 321 Speedmaster Professional, premoon cal 861, gold cal 864, Mitsukoshi limited edition. I love my Daytona C, but collecting Speedmasters is a hobby of mine.

[Krash]

Originally Posted by SaintMickey

Completely different. There is no reason to compare. Those saying Speedmaster because they can't afford" or because easier....

We have to be careful with these types of generalizations. I have a Speedmaster, not a Daytona, and I think you're greatly under-estimating my net worth.

[SaintMickey]

Originally Posted by Krash

We have to be careful with these types of generalizations. I have a Speedmaster, not a Daytona, and I think you're greatly under-estimating my net worth.

Go read the thread brother...I have a Speedmaster too.

I didn't say that others did in the thread . smh. I was saying they were (dummies)

[JSCP]

One is hype, overrated in SS ( And and I have one.)

Moonwatch is actually nicer I think, but I don’t like the new bracejet.

[rolexjackson]

Originally Posted by Krash

We have to be careful with these types of generalizations. I have a Speedmaster, not a Daytona, and I think you're greatly under-estimating my net worth.

Woah this is getting interesting!


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[TheVision]

I've never been a fan of the speedy. Handled the new version at Omega AD in Las Vegas some months ago. I do appreciate the history and all that but not a fan of printed dials. Then add in single gasket for WR and no screw down crown, really puts it outside of a daily wear category. I do like the new bracelet tough.

If u take the history away, it's just a "regular" chrono. And not a fan of the DT either. I'd rather take the new Breitling navitimer with the B01 movement anyday over both. But that's me.

[ugoblue]

If you are a "watch collector" then you are going to want a couple of Omegas - the classic Speedmaster Professional and probably a Seamaster 300. You can buy both tomorrow at MSRP at most ADs. Your total will be less than one steel Daytona at MSRP. So. why not start now?

If you are a "Rolex or nothing" type collector then I suppose you may be willing to either fork out $34-$40K or wait with no watch for a long while. Back in the day you could buy a Sub and DJ at MSRP while you waited. No more.

[Dougiebaby]

Originally Posted by ugoblue

If you are a "watch collector" then you are going to want a couple of Omegas - the classic Speedmaster Professional and probably a Seamaster 300. You can buy both tomorrow at MSRP at most ADs. Your total will be less than one steel Daytona at MSRP. So. why not start now?

If you are a "Rolex or nothing" type collector then I suppose you may be willing to either fork out $34-$40K or wait with no watch for a long while. Back in the day you could buy a Sub and DJ at MSRP while you waited. No more.

That is not entirely accurate of the Rolex situation. While my story is not “normal” … it is true.

March 2019 I purchased a TH Monaco at discount from my AD (first purchase ever with them)

May 2019 purchased blue DJ41 jubilee at 10% discount

July 2019 purchased BLNR Jubilee

October 2019 I asked for a Daytona

December 24, 2019 purchased black Daytona (58 day wait from my first ask)

February 2020 gave Daytona to my nephew as wedding present

March 2020 missed my black Daytona so much I asked for another

December 23, 2020 received my second black Daytona (364 days after first Daytona)

May 2021 asked for new Kermit

December 2021 received new Kermit

I have never purchased anything from my AD except those watches.

So, it is possible to develop a good relationship with an AD if you are sincere and a true watch lover (not a flipper). I will also note that my relationship with them is genuine (they have become friends).

Here’s my beloved sport watches in a Rolex 3-watch travel case my AD gave me one week after the new Kermit (about 2 weeks ago):






Lastly, I agree with you … Omega is a fantastic brand. I purchased a new blue SMP on bracelet (differentAD) in June 2021 at a 22% discount and love it.



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[dannyp]

Originally Posted by amanbra

I have both speed’s inc the 321 and the Daytona. Love them both as I’m a chrono fan, the thing is the movement in the Daytona is one of the best chrono movements ever made. Second the the size of the Daytona is what is so appealing for me. I only have a 6.5 inch wrist and the speed really wears large on me, though I wear it anyway.

Now is the Daytona worth what it is worth on the grey? No way in hell, but the msrp is fine. It’s a tad cheaper than the 321 which for me is about right.

For the three reasons I've bolded above, if I wanted a chronograph, I'd be seeking a Zenith Chronomaster Original.

From the company that essentially wrote the book on mechanical chronograph movements; an ideal 38mm; priced between Speedy and Daytona.

[Oxfordian]

Originally Posted by dannyp

For the three reasons I've bolded above, if I wanted a chronograph, I'd be seeking a Zenith Chronomaster Original.

From the company that essentially wrote the book on mechanical chronograph movements; an ideal 38mm; priced between Speedy and Daytona.

No argument from me, I have a Speedy but will happily add a Zenith in 2022 to the collection, I think that they will make a great pairing.

[Mystro]

Why does it have to be this vs that?? Why not just buy both? These kind of threads alway end up bitching about the current watch market that isn’t going away.

[Crazycollector]

Omega SPMoonwatch - works on earth and in heaven
Rolex Daytona- works on earth
Which is the best on earth?
Which is the best in the universe?
We are all winners really.....I am privileged to have both

[airchitect]

I enjoy both watches and will add a yg newman to my collection and a smp when I can. That said, I just don’t think the Daytona has anywhere near the provenance of an smp. Hell, using the racing logic I believe Heuer would make THE racing chrono wouldn’t they? Dig the Daytona but do think it’s way overhyped and would enjoy if it were a true 40 or 41mm instead of 38.5.


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[Deppe]

I have absolutely no problems with the Speedmaster, and actually really want the Speedmaster from the Triology realease (again). Such a good looking watch.

However, in my opinion, you cannot mention how the Daytona is pure marketing from Rolex, and then completely discard the whole Omega marketing maschine regarding the moon watch. Also, people seem to completely ignore that is was the Speedmaster with the 321 movement that made it to the moon. Later, when these watches had to be produced in higher numbers due to public demand, Omega shifted to the cheaper 861 movement (if I recall correctly).

Give me the Triology version with a 321 movement in it! (Yes, I know that it would just be the 2915-1, but I can't afford that model )

[logo]

Originally Posted by Deppe

I have absolutely no problems with the Speedmaster, and actually really want the Speedmaster from the Triology realease (again). Such a good looking watch.

However, in my opinion, you cannot mention how the Daytona is pure marketing from Rolex, and then completely discard the whole Omega marketing maschine regarding the moon watch. Also, people seem to completely ignore that is was the Speedmaster with the 321 movement that made it to the moon. Later, when these watches had to be produced in higher numbers due to public demand, Omega shifted to the cheaper 861 movement (if I recall correctly).

Give me the Triology version with a 321 movement in it! (Yes, I know that it would just be the 2915-1, but I can't afford that model )

Not entirely correct. Omega introduced the 861 movement in 1968 - a year before the moon landing. Both the 861 and 321 are Lemania-based, and share a lot of similarity, with the 861 being more economical for manufacturing (but not a “worse” movement. Arguably it performs better than the 321). Also, an 861 Speedmaster joined one of the later Apollo missions for testing where it orbited the moon. The 1861 is identical to the 861 except the copper plated parts are replaced with rhodium plated parts. Let’s not forget that BOTH the 321 and 861/1861 movements have been officially certified by NASA having met TRL-9 level testing and authorization for use in space. Thus the “marketing” moniker of “Flight qualified by NASA for all manned space missions” on the back of post-moon watches. Several 861 and 1861 have enjoyed hundreds of hours in space through space lab, and later shuttle missions and current ISS. I believe the Russians still issue the 1861 for space walks, and pre-SpaceX many (all?) Americans wore an 1861 at launch/decent from the Soyuz.

Omega markets the moon watch, sure. But you can’t buy NASA certification.

[Greenwood_]

The 1863 was my first serious watch. If it had a decent water resistance rating it would have been my one-and-done, and I wouldn’t have fallen even further down the WIS rabbit hole.

Great value, provenance, looks excellent for any occasion; bracelet, leather, NATOs, etc.

Alas, here I am lusting after the underrated and elegant 116503 to fill the self-created “formal special occasion watch” category in my collection.

[DannyO]

https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/wh...r-smiths-wrist

Speedy all day for me, watchmaker Roger Smith explains why he likes the Speedy in the above article.

[subtona]

Originally Posted by DannyO

https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/wh...r-smiths-wrist

Speedy all day for me, watchmaker Roger Smith explains why he likes the Speedy in the above article.

i suspect Daniels coaxial movement qualifies Smith as being a bit biased.

coaxial is a wonderful movement but truly a bit thick to the point that i would typically seek out something that respects the overall limits of what should be on ones wrist. wearing a watch vs the watch wearing the person.

[Speedsleev]

Really very different watches and after having variants of both I really believe this to be true even more. Speedy is bigger and wears nothing like a Daytona. Daytona proportions and fit are pretty much second to none. Then there is build quality, Speedmaster is a cool watch at a great price but there is no comparison and not to mention one is a manual wind so, other than both being a Chronograph, kind of stops there. IMO of course…

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by subtona

Manual vs automatic

50m vs 100m

Moon vs racing

Legible vs not.

Of all the pints above, the moon vs racing is of the least consequence to me.

IMHO
#1 The legibility is a pretty big deal
#2 being able to swim is next
#3 auto vs manual is a toss up.

This is EXACTLY what I have always struggled with. Still haven’t come to a conclusion

To add, I went to have another look at the 3861 a few weeks ago, but just couldn’t get past the manual wind crown. IMHO it’s not all the user friendly in how it’s set between the guards. YMMV. It’s a great watch otherwise, but I feel like the 321 is more to my liking