SwissWatchExpo sold me a fake Daytona 116500 for $21,800

[GLADIATOR]

Originally Posted by matt009au

Did they relist it after it was confirmed as a fake and returned, Or did they have multiple fakes?

From what I could see they relisted it, but they appeared to have 2!

[matt009au]

Originally Posted by GLADIATOR

From what I could see they relisted it, but they appeared to have 2!

This whole scenario is very troubling on multiple fronts.

Surprising that Swisswatchexpo are content to flush their reputation down the toilet. It is one thing to make a mistake with a high quality fake using a real movement. It is another thing to re-list it too try and fool another innocent party after rolex has confirmed it is a fake.

[GLADIATOR]

Originally Posted by matt009au

This whole scenario is very troubling on multiple fronts.

Surprising that Swisswatchexpo are content to flush their reputation down the toilet. It is one thing to make a mistake with a high quality fake using a real movement. It is another thing to re-list it too try and fool another innocent party after rolex has confirmed it is a fake.

EXACTLY
BUT - they are in a BIG loss, and the ONLY way they know to get out is dupe others.
sad and pathetic.
When I got duped - I took the pain.
Sold the movements separately.
This is a BIG issue - GENUINE movements in FAKE CASES/Bracelets and Dials!

[thesharkfactor]

Originally Posted by GLADIATOR

EXACTLY
BUT - they are in a BIG loss, and the ONLY way they know to get out is dupe others.
sad and pathetic.

If I was a watch dealer, I would ensure I had insurance to cover this scenario.

[GLADIATOR]

Originally Posted by thesharkfactor

If I was a watch dealer, I would ensure I had insurance to cover this scenario.

Not sure it exists? Of course you can write - off against tax.
But its a HUGE hit

[tigey]

Originally Posted by GLADIATOR

So it’s 100% genuine.
No mods or anything- correct?

yes its real movement. Why did you post this? Lets see the case its in.. is it a fake case?

[GLADIATOR]

Originally Posted by tigey

yes its real movement. Why did you post this? Lets see the case its in.. is it a fake case?

Yep. Both movements are I posted above 100% genuine, confined by Rolex
BUT
Cases/bracelet/Dials are fake.

I have personally seen 6’of these - I can post movements
I have 10 confirmed by ROLEX
Genuine “untouched” movements rest is all fake.

Do fake watches with genuine untouched movements exist? Hell yes and confirmed by Rolex

There are NO close Asian clones - that’s a myth.

Adam

[antrolexsub]

Originally Posted by GLADIATOR

There are NO close Asian clones - that’s a myth.

Adam

Ok then, Real or Fake?

[GLADIATOR]

Originally Posted by antrolexsub

Ok then, Real or Fake?

Please send a "hacked" photo, like I did.
But from what I can see - GENUINE
A

[vintagetudor]

Oooh I love this game

[antrolexsub]

Originally Posted by GLADIATOR

Please send a "hacked" photo, like I did.
But from what I can see - GENUINE
A

It’s fake. Un-edited pic below. See the main plate. No serial number. It’s a fake with a genuine balance cock, balance wheel, parachrome hairspring, genuine going train bridge and auto winding module/oscillating weight.



Not my pictures so can’t get a hacked one. Best I can do is the balance fitted to the main plate. Free sprung balance with micro Stella adjustment on the balance wheel.



Swap all these parts onto a genuine main plate with a real serial and for very little money you have a 4130 movement that will fool 99% of the people inspecting it. These things are scary and it’s only going to get worse. Not so much a problem on the 116500s as real parts are very difficult to come by, and the fake dials and bezels are easy to spot, but I’m now very very cautious on any 116520s I come across.

[GLADIATOR]

Originally Posted by antrolexsub

It’s fake. Un-edited pic below. See the main plate. No serial number. It’s a fake with a genuine balance cock, balance wheel, parachrome hairspring, all genuine bridges and auto winding module/oscillating weight.



Not my pictures so can’t get a hacked one. Best I can do is the balance fitted to the main plate. Free sprung balance with micro Stella adjustment on the balance wheel.



Swap all these parts onto a genuine main plate with a real serial and for very little money you have a 4130 movement that will fool 99% of the people inspecting it. These things are scary and it’s only going to get worse. Not so much a problem on the 116500s as real parts are very difficult to come by, and the fake dials and bezels are easy to spot, but I’m now very very cautious on any 116520s I come across.

OK
But 2 points
1) too much perlage
2) serial number on BP

BUT
I do accept the crown wheel is correct and functional.

HOWEVER
Its nothing like OPs movement
and fact remains, and confirmed by ROLEX that many (now WW) genuine movements are being fitted in completely fake watches.

The OPs movement is GENUINE - no perlage and a ROLEX movement serial number on BP
Adam

[antrolexsub]

Originally Posted by GLADIATOR

OK
But 2 points
1) too much perlage
2) serial number on BP

BUT
I do accept the crown wheel is correct and functional.

HOWEVER
Its nothing like OPs movement
and fact remains, and confirmed by ROLEX that many (now WW) genuine movements are being fitted in completely fake watches.

The OPs movement is GENUINE - no perlage and a ROLEX movement serial number on BP
Adam

Agreed the main plate finish isn’t to Rolex specs.

However, swap in a real main plate for relatively little and both of your points become invalid. Not difficult to obtain.



Now spot that it’s a fake movement. Very very difficult. And now it will look exactly like the OPs movement to the untrained, even most trained eyes. The sky high prices of these watches make this a viable option for a scumbag out to scam.

I’m not saying the movement in the OPs watch is a fake, as it more than likely isn’t. However it’s a possibility.

I’m also not disagreeing about genuine movements in a fake cases. There are plenty out there. I’ve seen a few.

My point is to show just how close these 4130 clones can be made to the real thing for a few thousand dollars. The days of looking at the balance on the 4130 is long gone. These can be very very convincing with a few genuine parts.

This is only going to get worse once the 31xx, 32xx series movements are cloned to a better spec and able to take Rolex balances, it’s only a matter of time.

[GLADIATOR]

Originally Posted by antrolexsub

Agreed the main plate finish isn’t to Rolex specs.

However, swap in a real main plate for relatively little and both of your points become invalid.



Now spot that it’s a fake movement. Very very difficult. And now it will look exactly like the OPs movement to the untrained, even most trained eyes. The sky high prices of these watches make this a viable option for a scumbag out to scam.

I’m not saying the movement in the OPs watch is a fake, as it more than likely isn’t. However it’s a possibility.

I’m also not disagreeing about genuine movements in a fake cases. There are plenty out there. I’ve seen a few.

My point is to show just how close these 4130 clones can be made to the real thing for a few thousand dollars. The days of looking at the balance on the 4130 is long gone. These can be very very convincing with a few genuine parts.

This is only going to get worse once the 31xx, 32xx series movements are cloned to a better spec and able to take Rolex balances, it’s only a matter of time.

No disagreement.
My point mainly is that there are a lot of fakes now WW that have GENUINE movements.
The OPs watch is one of them

Its reported as are all the others that I can reported and confirmed to/by ROLEX

Thanks your sensible and unemotional posts
Adam

[Chewbacca]

This thread is epic.

[antrolexsub]

Originally Posted by GLADIATOR

No disagreement.
My point mainly is that there are a lot of fakes now WW that have GENUINE movements.
The OPs watch is one of them

Its reported as are all the others that I can reported and confirmed to/by ROLEX

Thanks your sensible and unemotional posts
Adam

Good work. The more of these removed/reported the better

[GLADIATOR]

Originally Posted by antrolexsub

Good work. The more of these removed/reported the better

Agreed
I have gained only a little back from ROLEX.
I know where the movements are NOT coming from.
But they MUST know where they are coming from (based on serial number.

Once again - thanks your professionalism and knowledge
A

[BillA]

Hey OP

If you new or suspected the watch was fake why did you try to sell it on the forum to dupe or scam another forum member?

[CorradoBrit]

Originally Posted by BillA

Hey OP

If you new or suspected the watch was fake why did you try to sell it on the forum to dupe or scam another forum member?

I'm assuming OP found out after posting the FS ad that the watch was dodgy

[BillA]

Originally Posted by CorradoBrit

I'm assuming OP found out after posting the FS ad that the watch was dodgy

The FS ad was never canceled or withdrawn

[2th_doc]

.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BillA]

I think the OP has a little explaining to do here......

OP posted on WatchOut that he had a fake on August 16. However in this post he said he bought the watch over a month ago, so that is prior to July 16, and was told the band was fake and possibly the rest of the watch was fake. But on July 24th, a FS ad was placed by the OP, and bumped again on July 26th. By July 24th, OP knew it was fake or partly fake but went ahead to try to recoup his monies, so it seems, and sell to another forum member.

Hey OP, it is not OK that you are scammed.
But it is also not OK, that you may have tried to pawn this watch off on another forum member, knowing it was a potential fake. Perhaps you can explain your actions to the community. One more point, the FS AD is still running. Why?

[CorradoBrit]

Originally Posted by BillA

I think the OP has a little explaining to do here......

OP posted on WatchOut that he had a fake on August 16. However in this post he said he bought the watch over a month ago, so that is prior to July 16, and was told the band was fake and possibly the rest of the watch was fake. But on July 24th, a FS ad was placed by the OP, and bumped again on July 26th. By July 24th, OP knew it was fake or partly fake but went ahead to try to recoup his monies, so it seems, and sell to another forum member.

Hey OP, it is not OK that you are scammed.
But it is also not OK, that you may have tried to pawn this watch off on another forum member, knowing it was a potential fake. Perhaps you can explain your actions to the community. One more point, the FS AD is still running. Why?

Agreed some explanation is in order. And that FS ad redacted or closed.

[Etschell]

Originally Posted by BillA

I think the OP has a little explaining to do here......

OP posted on WatchOut that he had a fake on August 16. However in this post he said he bought the watch over a month ago, so that is prior to July 16, and was told the band was fake and possibly the rest of the watch was fake. But on July 24th, a FS ad was placed by the OP, and bumped again on July 26th. By July 24th, OP knew it was fake or partly fake but went ahead to try to recoup his monies, so it seems, and sell to another forum member.

Hey OP, it is not OK that you are scammed.
But it is also not OK, that you may have tried to pawn this watch off on another forum member, knowing it was a potential fake. Perhaps you can explain your actions to the community. One more point, the FS AD is still running. Why?

It is still listed on watch net

http://forums.watchnet.com/index.php...o=941049&rid=0

[Aquaholic_user]

Now I'm really getting into this. Scary how deceiving these movements are becoming.

SM-N960U

[CorradoBrit]

And sold another BNIB in 2016. Guess OP loves his black dial Daytona's

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=498498

[GLADIATOR]

Originally Posted by BillA

I think the OP has a little explaining to do here......

OP posted on WatchOut that he had a fake on August 16. However in this post he said he bought the watch over a month ago, so that is prior to July 16, and was told the band was fake and possibly the rest of the watch was fake. But on July 24th, a FS ad was placed by the OP, and bumped again on July 26th. By July 24th, OP knew it was fake or partly fake but went ahead to try to recoup his monies, so it seems, and sell to another forum member.

Hey OP, it is not OK that you are scammed.
But it is also not OK, that you may have tried to pawn this watch off on another forum member, knowing it was a potential fake. Perhaps you can explain your actions to the community. One more point, the FS AD is still running. Why?

Now that is interesting.
Well pointed out.
I have a feeling our OP HAS retired from
This thread.

[GLADIATOR]

Originally Posted by Etschell

It is still listed on watch net

http://forums.watchnet.com/index.php...o=941049&rid=0

I can only get it removed from
Ebay

[dmhines]

Hmmm. Got my 16713 from SWE. Also my Roadster. They seem to be on the up and up and have a ridiculous amount of inventory of all brands. The engravings on that Daytona seem to be done by hand. Yikes. Guessing the person who does the photos is not a Rolex expert.

Seems buying modern six digit references second hand is becoming a challenge due to the crazy good counterfeits.

[Blakerhodes]

Originally Posted by BillA

I think the OP has a little explaining to do here......

OP posted on WatchOut that he had a fake on August 16. However in this post he said he bought the watch over a month ago, so that is prior to July 16, and was told the band was fake and possibly the rest of the watch was fake. But on July 24th, a FS ad was placed by the OP, and bumped again on July 26th. By July 24th, OP knew it was fake or partly fake but went ahead to try to recoup his monies, so it seems, and sell to another forum member.

Hey OP, it is not OK that you are scammed.
But it is also not OK, that you may have tried to pawn this watch off on another forum member, knowing it was a potential fake. Perhaps you can explain your actions to the community. One more point, the FS AD is still running. Why?

I had 2 of them Both 2016, the one I was selling was a trade in at a dallas AD that was originally purchased from that ad. I took photo of the wrong one , as you can see my photos are awful. Mistake on my part , I will own that. I don’t do this for a living just a hobby. I generally just post a quick photo and usually will sell to dealers. I sold that watch already. I would never in my life sell anything I knew to be fake , period end of story. I’ve bought and sold watches with most of the big dealers on here , generally I will send them the watch prior to getting payment. If anyone had or ever has an issue with something of mine , I’d refund them if it was years later ... I don’t care. If you can find someone that has had a bad dealing with me I’d love to talk to them , if someone buys something off me I want them to be completely happy.