"You must bundle to purchase a Nautilus"

[dsk28]

Dear Patek Philippe collectors,

What do you think of recent demand by ADs requesting customers to "Bundle" their purchase in order to increase our chances of attaining a Nautilus? I recently have an experience in a Singapore AD where they explicitly told me to purchase a classic piece (non-sports) annual calender before they would allocate a Nautilus piece to me. My question is:

1. Is this the same everywhere else around the world?
2. Is this the new norm of Patek Philippe brand? (forcing us to purchase something we do not like in order to get a piece that suits our liking) or is this leaning more towards the AD?
3. Is this even legal?

In my opinion it is absurd that such measures must be taken in order for us to purchase a piece of luxury timepiece that we desire, but im interested to know what are your thoughts.

Regards,
Steve

Edit: I own a 5711 and have purchased 4 other timepieces from this specific AD

[thomaspp]

1. Demand for steel sports nautilus is so much higher than anything else in the catalog and many of the other things in the catalog are becoming very hard/impossible to sell

2. ADs are businesses and want to maximize how much money they can make, and i'd venture to say that with the uneven demand for certain watches, they are probably not exactly making a killing nowadays

3. Why would it not be legal? lol

I think if they tell you up front what the package deal is and you can do your own math and decide if its worth it to you or not, that is a win win for all parties involved

[Humble michael]

Originally Posted by thomaspp

1. Demand for steel sports nautilus is so much higher than anything else in the catalog and many of the other things in the catalog are becoming very hard/impossible to sell

2. ADs are businesses and want to maximize how much money they can make, and i'd venture to say that with the uneven demand for certain watches, they are probably not exactly making a killing nowadays

3. Why would it not be legal? lol

I think if they tell you up front what the package deal is and you can do your own math and decide if its worth it to you or not, that is a win win for all parties involved

Are you serious? Not making a killing? Their mark-up is at least 10 grand on a 5711- if their greed causes them to want more , they won’t get it from me. This extortion imo is unconscionable.

[thomaspp]

Originally Posted by james272

Are you serious? Not making a killing? Their mark-up is at least 10 grand on a 5711- if their greed causes them to want more , they won’t get it from me. This extortion imo is unconscionable.

I understand and I'm a collector just as frustrated with the current market. But I understand the situation the ADs are in. We could go buy an annual calendar, a perpetual etc etc which you will likely get a discount on but no, truth is we all want the same sports watches!

There is limited supply of watches people actually want (a measure self-imposed by the manufacturer for whatever reason) and ADs are stuck in this situation of having to buy watches they can't sell easily from the manufacturer and yet have a ton of customers for a handful of watches that everyone wants... so the system is broken and this bundeling is just a way for them to try to manage it.

[dsk28]

Originally Posted by thomaspp

1. Demand for steel sports nautilus is so much higher than anything else in the catalog and many of the other things in the catalog are becoming very hard/impossible to sell

2. ADs are businesses and want to maximize how much money they can make, and i'd venture to say that with the uneven demand for certain watches, they are probably not exactly making a killing nowadays

3. Why would it not be legal? lol

I think if they tell you up front what the package deal is and you can do your own math and decide if its worth it to you or not, that is a win win for all parties involved

1. This is true because the Nautilus has a very iconic design and combined with their entry level price point they are basically designed to be the best sellers in the catalogue.

2. I believe this has been the norm since old times? Trends change all the time and ADs would have to keep shifting their stock in order to regulate Supply/Demand curve.

3. I apologize for not being thorough, when I used the word 'legal' what I meant was does the Manufacturer (in this case, Patek Philippe SA) approve of this method?

Either way if the AD does decide in this direction it would be a whole new level of marketing. What would happen once the demand has died? Or would they keep rising instead?

I guess we live in crazy times indeed...

[thomaspp]

Originally Posted by dsk28

1. This is true because the Nautilus has a very iconic design and combined with their entry level price point they are basically designed to be the best sellers in the catalogue.



2. I believe this has been the norm since old times? Trends change all the time and ADs would have to keep shifting their stock in order to regulate Supply/Demand curve.



3. I apologize for not being thorough, when I used the word 'legal' what I meant was does the Manufacturer (in this case, Patek Philippe SA) approve of this method?



Either way if the AD does decide in this direction it would be a whole new level of marketing. What would happen once the demand has died? Or would they keep rising instead?



I guess we live in crazy times indeed...

How long have you been collecting watches? I only ask this because of your response to 1 above. Yes the nautilus is iconic but when I started 10 years ago in this hobby people were very much into complicated pateks with people seeking out enamel, PCs and PCCs and so on which are things that go back decades before the 1976 nautilus. 5711s were popular but still attainable and would trade at a small discount off of retail in the preowned market.

All in all a far cry from today. Now the “grail” is the entry level steel sports watch! Quite ironic by all measures!


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[dsk28]

Originally Posted by thomaspp

How long have you been collecting watches? I only ask this because of your response to 1 above. Yes the nautilus is iconic but when I started 10 years ago in this hobby people were very much into complicated pateks with people seeking out enamel, PCs and PCCs and so on which are things that go back decades before the 1976 nautilus. 5711s were popular but still attainable and would trade at a small discount off of retail in the preowned market.

All in all a far cry from today. Now the “grail” is the entry level steel sports watch! Quite ironic by all measures!


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It seems not too long ago, I started with an AP in 2012 and owned my first PP 3 years later. Since then my focus has solely been on ss PP & Rolex due to their design and price point, both of which fits my profile.

[The Argonaut]

Originally Posted by dsk28

It seems not too long ago, I started with an AP in 2012 and owned my first PP 3 years later. Since then my focus has solely been on ss PP & Rolex due to their design and price point, both of which fits my profile.

Interesting point. Are tastes changing, such that more purchasers see their watches through the prism of the "tool watch" hence wanting SS over PM? PP sees this and really doesn't know how to react to this change, much less want to react to it. Its business model is based on PM.

[WatchLurv]

Originally Posted by dsk28

1. This is true because the Nautilus has a very iconic design and combined with their entry level price point they are basically designed to be the best sellers in the catalogue.

2. I believe this has been the norm since old times? Trends change all the time and ADs would have to keep shifting their stock in order to regulate Supply/Demand curve.

3. I apologize for not being thorough, when I used the word 'legal' what I meant was does the Manufacturer (in this case, Patek Philippe SA) approve of this method?

Either way if the AD does decide in this direction it would be a whole new level of marketing. What would happen once the demand has died? Or would they keep rising instead?

I guess we live in crazy times indeed...

Nothing against the AD doing that. Patek would prefer that they sold all their inventory that they get for the year. At the end of the day the AD profits 50% on a sale of a Patek (they get the watch at cost - 50%), so it would only be logical for them to bundle a show-case piece (twenty-24 is popular) with a popular piece.

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by V25V

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[Sam Philip]

It is happening in the UK as well. I am aware that 2 big AD chains are asking first time customers to buy other watches/jewellery in order to get in to Nautilus waiting lists. I am sure Patek is fully aware of it.

[danestaff]

Originally Posted by Sam Philip

It is happening in the UK as well. I am aware that 2 big AD chains are asking first time customers to buy other watches/jewellery in order to get in to Nautilus waiting lists. I am sure Patek is fully aware of it.

thats WOS then , ive had them try it with me when ive enquired, but thankfully i have great a relationship with my AD who will always get my custom

[Sam Philip]

Originally Posted by danestaff

thats WOS then , ive had them try it with me when ive enquired, but thankfully i have great a relationship with my AD who will always get my custom

Correct. Boodles also asking new customers to purchase jewellery/other Pateks in order to get a Nautilus.

[danestaff]

Look basically we all know its a game, and it's however best you play it, I'm not saying it's right but it's life

Thankfully as I say I've built up a nice relationship where I suppose I'm a lucky man

I'm sure you have too

Originally Posted by Sam Philip

Correct. Boodles also asking new customers to purchase jewellery/other Pateks in order to get a Nautilus.

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[rolexpatek363]

Originally Posted by dsk28

Dear Patek Philippe collectors,

What do you think of recent demand by ADs requesting customers to "Bundle" their purchase in order to increase our chances of attaining a Nautilus? I recently have an experience in a Singapore AD where they explicitly told me to purchase a classic piece (non-sports) annual calender before they would allocate a Nautilus piece to me. My question is:

1. Is this the same everywhere else around the world?
2. Is this the new norm of Patek Philippe brand? (forcing us to purchase something we do not like in order to get a piece that suits our liking) or is this leaning more towards the AD?
3. Is this even legal?

In my opinion it is absurd that such measures must be taken in order for us to purchase a piece of luxury timepiece that we desire, but im interested to know what are your thoughts.

Regards,
Steve

Edit: I own a 5711 and have purchased 4 other timepieces from this specific AD

They are free to offer whatever they want to offer, and we are free to politely decline the offer. The level of assumed desperation among PP buyers by the AD is out of all proportion to the necessity of the purchase.

[Bearxj86]

Capitalism.

The Nautilus sell at so much of a premium over retail that it makes sense to do so.

I think the Retailers and you will want it to be win-win. They sell you a combo package that is still better than grey.

[dsk28]

Originally Posted by bearxj86

Capitalism.

The Nautilus sell at so much of a premium over retail that it makes sense to do so.

I think the Retailers and you will want it to be win-win. They sell you a combo package that is still better than grey.

Honestly I still do not understand how they are selling for nearly double their retail price? Can't the AD just adjust the price to reflect more closely on market price?

[thomaspp]

You know what the real problem is?? There aren't enough watches people actually want.... Everyone wants steel sports watches and nautilus when it comes to patek. Sad but true.

ou kind of have to wonder if Patek's hand won't be forced to make more quantities and more references.

[CoveWatch]

Originally Posted by thomaspp

You know what the real problem is?? There aren't enough watches people actually want.... Everyone wants steel sports watches and nautilus when it comes to patek. Sad but true.

ou kind of have to wonder if Patek's hand won't be forced to make more quantities and more references.

I've always been under the impression (and I could be completely wrong) that Patek's, along with many other watchmakers, sales are booming. Numbers are higher than ever because of the scarcity of the popular models coupled with the social media effect. I mean sure not everybody who can't buy a Nautilus goes and buys a dress piece instead, but theres a percentage that does right? I think Patek knows exactly what they're doing, same as Rolex, and are embracing it.

[thomaspp]

Originally Posted by CoveWatch

I've always been under the impression (and I could be completely wrong) that Patek's, along with many other watchmakers, sales are booming. Numbers are higher than ever because of the scarcity of the popular models coupled with the social media effect. I mean sure not everybody who can't buy a Nautilus goes and buys a dress piece instead, but theres a percentage that does right? I think Patek knows exactly what they're doing, same as Rolex, and are embracing it.

Sales booming?! I mean would like to be proven otherwise but seems to me that most of the catalog is quite slow with exception only for the sports watches....

[CoveWatch]

Originally Posted by thomaspp

Sales booming?! I mean would like to be proven otherwise but seems to me that most of the catalog is quite slow with exception only for the sports watches....

Then maybe I've heard wrong. Don't remember where or when i heard or read it, but that was the impression I was under. But I agree it would be great if Patek started increasing production on the modern sport models so more people could buy them.

[RHIII]

Originally Posted by thomaspp

Sales booming?! I mean would like to be proven otherwise but seems to me that most of the catalog is quite slow with exception only for the sports watches....

Agree — how can sales be booming when no one has any watches to sell!!


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[thomaspp]

Originally Posted by RHIII

Agree — how can sales be booming when no one has any watches to sell!!


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Totally


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[RHIII]

Originally Posted by thomaspp

You know what the real problem is?? There aren't enough watches people actually want.... Everyone wants steel sports watches and nautilus when it comes to patek. Sad but true.



ou kind of have to wonder if Patek's hand won't be forced to make more quantities and more references.

SPOT ON my friend.

I’ve commented on this phenomenon before - so I will pass this go round. But I’ve been saying this same thing for a while know - and had conversations about it with my AD friends. Just release the watches - and sell them to the people who want them!!!!

At the end of the day there is nothing ‘rare’ or ‘collectible’ about a modern reference —if we’re talking about a 3700 Jumbo...different story.




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[Russell996]

Originally Posted by RHIII

At the end of the day there is nothing ‘rare’ or ‘collectible’ about a modern reference —if we’re talking about a 3700 Jumbo...different story.

Nearly 5000 Jumbo 3700’s in steel isn’t particularly ‘rare’ but it is running ‘collectible’ at the moment. I have no doubt they will fall back at some point.

[thomaspp]

Originally Posted by Russell996

Nearly 5000 Jumbo 3700’s in steel isn’t particularly ‘rare’ but it is running ‘collectible’ at the moment. I have no doubt they will fall back at some point.

Here are the production numbers of 3700 actually.... I hope prices fall but looking at 2499 and other vintage patek, something tells me they won’t anytime soon! Lol




I love 5711 and 12 etc but in comparison to 3700, the 3700 production numbers are tiny (especially if you consider the condition of those that are "collectible"). There must be more than 12,000 5711s out there by now. You agree? Best


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[Russell996]

Originally Posted by thomaspp

Here are the production numbers of 3700 actually.... I hope prices fall but looking at 2499 and other vintage patek, something tells me they won’t anytime soon! Lol




I love 5711 and 12 etc but in comparison to 3700, the 3700 production numbers are tiny (especially if you consider the condition of those that are "collectible"). There must be more than 12,000 5711s out there by now. You agree? Best


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Same book I was quoting from - an excellant read. I have no doubt the 3700 is rarer than the 5711, but you can’t describe nearly 5000 as a tiny production number.
Not sure 2499 belongs in the same conversation and certainly doesn’t tell us anything about the price of 3700/5711 ongoing.

[Bearxj86]

Originally Posted by thomaspp

Here are the production numbers of 3700 actually.... I hope prices fall but looking at 2499 and other vintage patek, something tells me they won’t anytime soon! Lol









I love 5711 and 12 etc but in comparison to 3700, the 3700 production numbers are tiny (especially if you consider the condition of those that are "collectible"). There must be more than 12,000 5711s out there by now. You agree? Best





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Here’s to hoping two tone comes back in force and I am rewarded for my choice of 3700 AJ over the 5711r




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[V25V]

F that.


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[Divingdeep87]

In a way I can understand why the AD is doing it. Same with the daytona. Everybody want’s it so they can sell it 20 mins later, with a mark up on 50%. I can understand why they sell to a good client or a good buyer.

There is no PP or Rolex shortage, just alot of people who wants easy money on the hyped models, thanks to the internet and the booming middle classs around the world.