Patek’s Quiet Downgrading of the new Nautilus and Aquanaut

[bp1000]

Am I missing something here, I thought Patek Philippe clarified their new depth rating for new releases in their W&W press release

https://static.patek.com/pdf/pressre...nd_Wonders.pdf
(scroll down to "Unified criteria for water-resistance")

What I'm currently unsure of and I'm guessing is that all pre W&W 2024 models still showing 30m on site (i.e. most if not all 2024 and earlier models) are still rated to the old measurement - indeed confusing but I thought it had been clarified?

[kaiserphoenix]

Originally Posted by bp1000

Am I missing something here, I thought Patek Philippe clarified their new depth rating for new releases in their W&W press release

https://static.patek.com/pdf/pressre...nd_Wonders.pdf
(scroll down to "Unified criteria for water-resistance")

What I'm currently unsure of and I'm guessing is that all pre W&W 2024 models still showing 30m on site (i.e. most if not all 2024 and earlier models) are still rated to the old measurement - indeed confusing but I thought it had been clarified?

Yes but Im 100000% confident that if you take your perpetual calendar or a calatrava to 30m swimming, it will not hold up. I would have accepted this if it stated 30m water proof for aquanaut/nautilus and then it would be like 2m watere proof for dress watches. but now it states 30m across the board, I feel it will be even more dangerous if someone bought a 5270 and looks at the 3ATM and thinks they can now swim with it.

[HMHM]

I can’t think of any other time where a manufacturer voluntarily made the specification of a product they had released worse without regulators intervention….
An example of don’t go fixing things that ain’t broken….

[subtona]

…

[Vince_76]

Originally Posted by subtona

…

This is so lazy. Just have individual ratings. Crazy a luxury brand would do this.

[kaiserphoenix]

Originally Posted by Vince_76

This is so lazy. Just have individual ratings. Crazy a luxury brand would do this.

not only is it lazy, isnt it dangerous!??? Now people are technically able to take their perpetual calendars and world timers into the pool and swim with it and Patek is now liable for any water damages...

[pam66]

sounds like preparing for their coming dive watch line. i can already hear them say: the cubitus is tested waterproof at 100m!

[AK797]

Originally Posted by pam66

sounds like preparing for their coming dive watch line. i can already hear them say: the cubitus is tested waterproof at 100m!

Ha, funny but probably true, they are going to give this a massive push I bet so will need to pull out all stops.

[Vince_76]

Originally Posted by pam66

sounds like preparing for their coming dive watch line. i can already hear them say: the cubitus is tested waterproof at 100m!

Yep, good point. What a misleading move.

Is the Cubitus name confirmed? And when are they revealing it? I have quite low expectations…

[Megalobyte]

My only question is, are all 30m rated watches already sold and in use actually good to swim with? Thats what I need to know.

[pam66]

Originally Posted by Megalobyte

My only question is, are all 30m rated watches already sold and in use actually good to swim with? Thats what I need to know.

to my knowledge PP did not say whether they made any technical changes in concordance with this new 'real 30m' bs. but i doubt it...

[Greenp]

Did Patek say anything about NOT using chronograph pushers under water?

[GGGMT]

Pushers under water doesn’t sound great for any brand.


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[Halothane]

Everyone concerned should remove themselves immediately from any waitlists. I’ll happily move up the queue


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[subtona]

Should have just changed the rating to feet.

“Now rated to 99 feet”

[scurfa]

It could cause some confusion for instance last year the platinum Ellipse had no water resistance but the rose gold version had the 30m, now the Platinum version has the 30m, what changes have been made and what’s to stop someone who bought one years ago thinking theirs has the 30m?


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[Crown & Shield]

It is all fugazi anyway, so who cares?

[Gebbeth]

Completely and utterly useless explanation from Patek, to the point of being seemingly disingenuous.

What in god's name are they trying to say? IF they are saying 30M or 3 bar is "their" standard for surface swimmable watch ratings, then, as one commenter already stated, are their 30M dress watches now "swimmable?" Really?

So does this mean that they are just not testing for 120M of 12 bar testing depths on their cases? If that's the case, none of these sports watches can be trusted for water resistance for active water activities. It's not just about swimming or not swimming or even diving. Part of having a robust WR rating was for those what if situations? Diving into water. Accidentally dropping your watch into the water. Or just having a watch tested to depths that you may not ever see in real life, but ensure that water will essentially never be a worry for you....that is a "feature" that people pay for in a sports watch.

OR are they really downgrading their sports watches with standard water resistance meant only for dress watches...ie, standard gaskets and seals, to standardized these components across all their watches? Now that's a real downgrade.

If Patek is going the ALS route and really have only 1 watch line that can be considered a sports watch with robust water resistance, then just say it.

But my guess is they can't without risking their cash cow and sports watch icons.

It's a stupid move. If their goal is "honesty" they really have to explain it. So are they just testing to 3 bar? Or are they testing to 10 bar or more and just marking it 3 bar for a safety cushion? Does this mean they are going to restate the WR ratings on all their other watches including dress watches, or are they just going to remove that altogether from their dress watches to basically tell the public these watches are not WR at all in any way shape or form? Will they come clean and say that then?

[SL BRABUS]

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/WXQbP7X0B64

Nevermind about the DeepSea in the background....

Look at this guy reaction & what he has to say about the new Aquanaut & Nautilus 30m water resistance... That sum it up...

[subtona]

For what it’s worth,

unlike Rolex that states WR directly on the dial and many brands that stamp it on the case back.

Looking at my 5711, I maybe missing it, I do not find any indication of WR on the actual watch.


panerai has done this as well reducing many of their models to 100m that were historically 300m in addition to swapping out the typical screw back for a snap back.

[Will_NL]

Looking at the facts

The terminology water resist has to meet, since 2010, the following ISO norm IF you want to mention the water resistance on the watch itself, next to all the tests and requirements

ISO 22810:2010, Horology – Water-resistant watches , has been drawn up to meet a global demand for clear and unambiguous specifications in this area. It clarifies the terms used, defines the criteria to be met by the product and specifies the marking which may appear on the product.

That means that 50 mtr ofr5 bars signifies that you can swim with your watch:

Water resistance rating Suitability Remarks
Splash/rain resistant is not suitable for showering, bathing, swimming, snorkeling, water related work, fishing, and diving.

Water Resistant 3 atm or 30 m is Suitable for everyday use.

Water Resistant 5 atm or 50 m Suitable for everyday use, showering, bathing, shallow-water swimming, snorkeling, water related work, fishing. Splash/rain resistant. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:NOTRS 1) Not suitable for diving.

Water Resistant 10 atm or 100 m is suitable for recreational surfing, swimming, snorkeling, sailing and water sports. Not suitable for deep water diving.

Water Resistant 20 atm or 200 m is suitable for professional marine activity, serious surface water sports and skin diving. Suitable for skin diving.

Diver’s 100 m Minimum ISO standard (ISO 6425) for scuba diving at depths not suitable for saturation diving. Diver’s 100 m and 150 m watches are generally old(er) watches.

Dynamic movements adds pressure trhough movement in thin fluids, and if you want to skip algebra, the last sentence says that it will not addup to more then half a Bar, of 5 mtr by swimming with your watch:

Dynamic pressure is the pressure induced by movement in dense fluids, in the case of a diver typically the pressure caused by his swimming movements in water. A dynamic pressure of 1 standard atmosphere (100 kPa) (for example the flow of a river) on the surface of a hand (assuming the surface of an “average hand” of 150 cm2) will correspond to a dynamic pressure induced force of 1,500 newtons (340 lbf). In order to calculate the dynamic pressure caused by a fast underwater swimming movement of a diver the following formula can be applied:

P = 1⁄2 ρv 2

Where P is the dynamic pressure, ρ is the density of the fluid and v is the speed. For a fast swimming movement of 10 m/s in typical sea water this works out as:

ρ = 1026 kg/m3

v = 10 m/s

P = 1⁄2 × 1026 kg/m3 × (10 m/s)2 ≈ 51,300 Pa ≈ 0.5063 atm

This calculation shows that fast swimming movements will not create dynamic pressure surges exceeding 0.5 standard atmospheres (51 kPa) (the equivalent of 5 metres of water pressure).

Swimming 10 mtrs (33 feet) per seconde is about 36 km/h (22 miles/h) an that is quite hard to do …


Omega says this:
All current OMEGA watches are water resistant to the depth defined by the model specifications, provided that the components ensuring the water resistance are intact. This means that an OMEGA watch that is water resistant to 30 metres can be worn for swimming at depths of up to 30 metres underwater for extended periods without restriction.

https://www.omegawatches.com/customer-service/faq

IWC says the same thing:

https://www.iwc.com/nl/en/specials/water-resistant.html

So by definition Patek 30m is swimable, and if they state that the watch can actually survive 30m under the surface the that would be a huge upgrade

[subtona]

Originally Posted by Will_NL

Looking at the facts

The terminology water resist has to meet, since 2010, the following ISO norm IF you want to mention the water resistance on the watch itself, next to all the tests and requirements

ISO 22810:2010, Horology – Water-resistant watches , has been drawn up to meet a global demand for clear and unambiguous specifications in this area. It clarifies the terms used, defines the criteria to be met by the product and specifies the marking which may appear on the product.

That means that 50 mtr ofr5 bars signifies that you can swim with your watch:

Water resistance rating Suitability Remarks
Splash/rain resistant is not suitable for showering, bathing, swimming, snorkeling, water related work, fishing, and diving.

Water Resistant 3 atm or 30 m is Suitable for everyday use.

Water Resistant 5 atm or 50 m Suitable for everyday use, showering, bathing, shallow-water swimming, snorkeling, water related work, fishing. Splash/rain resistant. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:NOTRS 1) Not suitable for diving.

Water Resistant 10 atm or 100 m is suitable for recreational surfing, swimming, snorkeling, sailing and water sports. Not suitable for deep water diving.

Water Resistant 20 atm or 200 m is suitable for professional marine activity, serious surface water sports and skin diving. Suitable for skin diving.

Diver’s 100 m Minimum ISO standard (ISO 6425) for scuba diving at depths not suitable for saturation diving. Diver’s 100 m and 150 m watches are generally old(er) watches.

Dynamic movements adds pressure trhough movement in thin fluids, and if you want to skip algebra, the last sentence says that it will not addup to more then half a Bar, of 5 mtr by swimming with your watch:

Dynamic pressure is the pressure induced by movement in dense fluids, in the case of a diver typically the pressure caused by his swimming movements in water. A dynamic pressure of 1 standard atmosphere (100 kPa) (for example the flow of a river) on the surface of a hand (assuming the surface of an “average hand” of 150 cm2) will correspond to a dynamic pressure induced force of 1,500 newtons (340 lbf). In order to calculate the dynamic pressure caused by a fast underwater swimming movement of a diver the following formula can be applied:

P = 1⁄2 ρv 2

Where P is the dynamic pressure, ρ is the density of the fluid and v is the speed. For a fast swimming movement of 10 m/s in typical sea water this works out as:

ρ = 1026 kg/m3

v = 10 m/s

P = 1⁄2 × 1026 kg/m3 × (10 m/s)2 ≈ 51,300 Pa ≈ 0.5063 atm

This calculation shows that fast swimming movements will not create dynamic pressure surges exceeding 0.5 standard atmospheres (51 kPa) (the equivalent of 5 metres of water pressure).

Swimming 10 mtrs (33 feet) per seconde is about 36 km/h (22 miles/h) an that is quite hard to do …


Omega says this:
All current OMEGA watches are water resistant to the depth defined by the model specifications, provided that the components ensuring the water resistance are intact. This means that an OMEGA watch that is water resistant to 30 metres can be worn for swimming at depths of up to 30 metres underwater for extended periods without restriction.

https://www.omegawatches.com/customer-service/faq

IWC says the same thing:

https://www.iwc.com/nl/en/specials/water-resistant.html

So by definition Patek 30m is swimable, and if they state that the watch can actually survive 30m under the surface the that would be a huge upgrade

That is a lot of technical info. Can’t say it all makes sense to me.

My question is, has Patek REDESIGNED OR simply REDEFINED the construction of their WR watch cases?


made a change in the seals or construction of their watch cases or have they just redefined (without any actual changes) the previously existing WR

[Vasco]

Originally Posted by subtona

My question is, has Patek REDESIGNED OR simply REDEFINED the construction of their WR watch cases?


made a change in the seals or construction of their watch cases or have they just redefined (without any actual changes) the previously existing WR

This is the question I asked when it was released 2 weeks ago while people got crazy. If the watches don't change in terms of design (gaskets, etc...), then they didn't change in terms of WR.

If they are undertaking modifications on all their exisiting models, it's another story. To say the least, it would be surprising.

[Russell996]

Originally Posted by subtona

That is a lot of technical info. Can’t say it all makes sense to me.

My question is, has Patek REDESIGNED OR simply REDEFINED the construction of their WR watch cases?


made a change in the seals or construction of their watch cases or have they just redefined (without any actual changes) the previously existing WR

They are now measuring with crown unscrewed, nothing regarding the watch design or manufacture or indeed its ability to be used to depth has changed.

[ndirish2001]

Originally Posted by Russell996

They are now measuring with crown unscrewed, nothing regarding the watch design or manufacture or indeed its ability to be used to depth has changed.

That goes directly against what Patek stated about this change. They are not testing them with crown unscrewed. They specifically say that all water resistance ratings are based on crowns pushed in (and screwed in if that’s an option). They’re just now testing them only to 30m and they will stand behind that, meaning that you can use such a watch for swimming and even diving down to 30 meters.

[Greenp]

Somebody should pressure test their Nautilus/Aquanaut.

[fsprow]

Originally Posted by Greenp

Somebody should pressure test their Nautilus/Aquanaut.

I have Nautilus and Aquanauts water tested to 100 meters each year. Never a single fail. The seals are changed at service, usually 7-10 years.

[Greenp]

Maybe be the new Cubitus will be listed as 100M water resistance so they can try to get people interested in them.

[Speedbird-1]

Originally Posted by Greenp

Maybe be the new Cubitus will be listed as 100M water resistance so they can try to get people interested in them.

This guy, could be interested.

[RussW]

Well, as far as I’m concerned this is a downgrade of all Nautilus and Aquanaut models.

I’ve checked the instruction booklet for my 5990 and it clearly states it is water resistant to 120m. In the instruction booklet online at Patek for the 5990 no mention of water resistance is now given. Now we can all guess that if nothing has changed (and who knows if that is actually true?), then the current model is also water resistant to 120m. I’d rather not guess and just go on the facts Patek has given us, which is the Nautilus / Aquanaut are now 30m water resistant, along with their other watches. Effectively a downgrade.

Has anyone seen anything official in writing from Patek, and not simply “my AD confirmed….” that the 30m water resistance is based on the crown unscrewed? Again, from the instructions online at Patek, it is clearly stated that the water resistance of the watch is only assured when the crown is screwed in.