Bracelet not correct for model??!!

[dgkula]

I bought my 1997 GMT Master II ref 16710 new at an AD. I serviced it the first time at the RSC in NY in 2016. It's started running +20 sec so I just dropped it at a large local AD last weekend as I didnt want to box it up and send it to the RSC.

I goth the estimate today and it was noted that the original oyster bracelet is "not correct for model" and service *requires* the purchase of a jubilee bracelet!!

I called and the woman who picked up explained that many of these older watches have had bracelets swapped and so mine isnt original. So I lost it on her. WTF? I dont think I've ever seen a 16710 with a jubilee bracelet?

This is a large, highly reputable jewler and Rolex AD so I would be really surprised if this was a scam but it seems really hard for it to be an honest mistake. They are also listing a bezel insert as optional which makes sense and I am declining that.

Also when the RSC serviced it in 2016 they suggested new dial & hands as the tritium isnt working any more - but this AD didnt suggest new dial & hands.

Not sure what to think. Scam or honest mistake?

Edit: I did read on the internet that "When it comes to the bracelet, this also varies. The watch came with an Oyster 78360 bracelet but back in the day also on a 78790 Oysterlock bracelet. What’s more, the GMT 16710 also came with a 62510 jubilee bracelet"

So perhaps all bracelets are period correct?

[0nly5iv3Digits]

Yep, the 62510 jubillee is also correct for 16700 and 16710 models

Paperwork from 91' wouldn't specify bracelet, but perhaps Rolex corporate has the detailed info based on the serial number, indicating that the watch was originally sold on jubillee.

I'd pop over to RSC in NYC quite honestly. I don't like dealing with the AD's... Don't be shocked if they aren't bothered by the bracelet.

[dgkula]

Originally Posted by 0nly5iv3Digits

Yep, the 62510 jubillee is also correct for 16700 and 16710 models

Paperwork from 91' wouldn't specify bracelet, but perhaps Rolex corporate has the detailed info based on the serial number, indicating that the watch was originally sold on jubillee.

But I am the original buyer from Watches of Switzerland in London. Are you suggesting that the AD swapped the bracelet out before selling it?

[2000-NJDEVILS]

Sir,
May I suggest that you go to another AD for a second opinion….
If not, I am sure that can find a good condition, pre-owned Real Rolex bracelet - if that is what you seek to make your watch “apples to apples” correct for its era.
Good Luck!

[0nly5iv3Digits]

Originally Posted by dgkula

But I am the original buyer from Watches of Switzerland in London. Are you suggesting that the AD swapped the bracelet out before selling it?

I missed that, OP. Didn't see you are the original owner. Obvious mistake on the part of the AD in that case.

[fivedime]

Since all 3 bracelet options were available and correct for the 16710, yes ADs most certainly have swapped bracelets prior to selling (and, anecdotally from several sources, did). Say you wanted a Pepsi with the fliplock (Explorer) clasp, and all they had in stock at the time was a black with fliplock and a Pepsi with Jubilee…easy swap to make the sale today. It was a different world then…dealers had stock, parts could be ordered and swapped out without exchange (very common with 16710 bracelets and bezel inserts, until very recently) or even just kept in stock as replacements/swaps. I do not believe even today, however, any “correction” to whatever bracelet the watch left the factory with is required…assuming Rolex even kept such records…

[Stew7]

As the original owner, you have a pretty firm leg to stand on here. I would simply tell the AD they're mistaken or ask what is the basis of their opinion since you purchased direct from an AD. You could post a picture here for confirmation but you know your watch.

If you're working with Long's Jewelers currently, I'd pop over to Date and Time and get their opinion. They serviced my Sea Dweller and Sub in the last couple years and seemed to do good work and are knowledgeable.

[karleone]

Go to another AD

[dgkula]

The AD called me back today and explained that they put my SN in the Rolex DB and it is coming back with Jubilee bracelet as original and the 9x part number bracelet (didnt write it down but it is oyster fliplock) was for a Submariner. She explained that the 90's were the wild west for ADs and it was common for bracelets to be changed but as an AD and Auth Service Center, Rolex limits what they can do strictly; if the Rolex DB says jubilee bracelet they cannot service it without requiring the bracelet - so their plan is to send it to the RSC for service.

I guess since the RSC in NY services my watch in 2016 with no issue about the bracelet there should be no issue this time ...

[dgkula]

Originally Posted by Stew7

If you're working with Long's Jewelers currently, I'd pop over to Date and Time and get their opinion. They serviced my Sea Dweller and Sub in the last couple years and seemed to do good work and are knowledgeable.

Longs does have my GMT. I live in the same town as Date & Time. I tried calling a few times and could never get a pick up so I drove to Burlington to go to Longs.

Appreciate the recommendation.

I believe (but could certainly be wrong) the Auth Svc Centers do the service in-house and I was curious as to how such a small shop could have the ability to service in-house which was why I was calling them.

[dgkula]

Looking online at the 78790 Oysterlock bracelet which would have come with the GMT and the 93150 that came with the Submariner (fliplock with the extension), the bracelet on my watch as purchased from AD with the 93150 so sounds like the AD is correct.

The RSC better not give me any gruff about servicing the watch with the bracelet on it as I purchased form Watches of Switzerland.

Only now, 26 years later do I realize that I was scammed by a Rolex AD!!! :)

[dgkula]

Edit: after lots of searching on this forum there is confirmation that the 93150 bracelet was an option on this watch. I cant believe that I'm being treated like this by Long's / Rolex.

Why should I be made to feel that I need to prove the provenance of my watch in order to ONLY pay $850 for a movement service for my luxury watch. Great customer service. NOT!

[dgkula]

Just this morning I sent them pictures of original box and papers including a "service voucher" with my signature from 1997, and a picture of the receipt from the RSC for the 2016 service.

[Tomas Eriksson]

Originally Posted by dgkula

The AD called me back today and explained that they put my SN in the Rolex DB and it is coming back with Jubilee bracelet as original and the 9x part number bracelet (didnt write it down but it is oyster fliplock) was for a Submariner. She explained that the 90's were the wild west for ADs and it was common for bracelets to be changed but as an AD and Auth Service Center, Rolex limits what they can do strictly; if the Rolex DB says jubilee bracelet they cannot service it without requiring the bracelet - so their plan is to send it to the RSC for service.

I guess since the RSC in NY services my watch in 2016 with no issue about the bracelet there should be no issue this time ...

Someone at that AD must be interpreting rules to strict rules and assuming wrong. People here at the forums exchanged oysters for jubilee bracelets and wise versa on even newer models.

Are you saying they are suggested not to serve it themselves but rather send it to a rolex service center?

Rolex needs to chill out a bit with all their threats against ADs...

[dgkula]

Originally Posted by Tomas Eriksson

Are you saying they are suggested not to serve it themselves but rather send it to a rolex service center?

Rolex needs to chill out a bit with all their threats against ADs...

Yes correct. They are saying that when they look up the serial number in Rolex's database it shows that the watch originally was produced with a jubilee bracelet. As a result, according to Rolex policy for Authorized Service Centers, they cannot service it without requiring a replacement jubilee bracelet to be purchased.

As I have told them that I will not purchase a new jubilee bracelet, that I purchased it new as is (with the 93150) in 1997, and that the RSC serviced it in 2016 without issue, they have explained that their only choice is to send it to the RSC for servicing.

Unreal. Really great customer service from Rolex for a luxury purchase.

[joli160]

It’s always better to deal direct with the RSC and cut out the middle man

[Pepperjack]

I want to speak as the watchmaker at an AD that is responsible for the estimates on the repairs we do.

Significant changes have occurred in the past 2-3 years on how we, as an authorized service center, must operate. Whenever I start an estimate for a repair, I have to enter the serial number into a database "WSR." This does several things, the first of which would be to instruct me as to whether or not I'm allowed to do any work on it; sometimes a watch is flagged as needing to be sent to Rolex directly. Depending on the age of the watch, service history, etc., WSR will show me various information such as new-sale warranty expiration, service warranty expiration, movement serial number, original bracelet, bezel insert, dial, etc. When the watch leaves my shop post-service, I must ensure that the information on WSR is correct to the watch as I have warrantied it.

I can make some changes, but they must be correct to that watch. Common example: a Rolesor ladies Datejust comes in with a silver dial with diamond hour markers, but WSR lists it as having a champagne-coloured dial with stick marks. When the repair is done, I can change the dial in WSR to the silver dial with stones. That is still an appropriate dial for that model, and it is an available option on the list of dials.

On a 16710, I can't change the bracelet to a 93150 bracelet in WSR. I can change it to a Jubilee, an Oyster, or the Oyster Fliplock with no extension. That's all I'm authorized to do.

It's unfortunate, and I don't particularly care what bracelet, dial, or bezel is on your watch. As far as I'm concerned, it's your watch. But I can't estimate based on my opinions. Hell, the jewelry store that I work for doesn't like it either, but that's the cost of being a partner of Rolex. I understand the frustration. There are often three thoughts that I have when estimating:
1. "This is great, I didn't have to require anything!"
2. "They brought this to us, so clearly they want the service done 'The Rolex Way."'
3. "I hope they decline and take this somewhere else."

I do hope you get your watch serviced the way that you would like, but it might be that an AD or RSC may not have the product you're looking to buy.

[dgkula]

Originally Posted by Pepperjack

I want to speak as the watchmaker at an AD that is responsible for the estimates on the repairs we do.

Thank you very much for sharing this Pepperjack. It really does seem like Rolex, not the AD, is the source of the problem here.

I bought this new at an AD in the UK in 1997 with the 93150 Oyster fliplock bracelet. Given your experience would you have any idea:
1. Why WSR says that my watch should have a jubilee bracelet when I bought it new from an AD with the 93150 on it?
2. Why the RSC serviced it in 2016 without requiring purchase of a jubilee bracelet?

Do you think that owing to some change in rules and procedures Rolex AD/ASC and RSC will no longer service my watch without requiring the purchase of a jubilee bracelet?

That would be crazy! The watch is original as-purchased except for the insert & crystal replacement by RSC in 2016!

[Pepperjack]

Originally Posted by dgkula

I bought this new at an AD in the UK in 1997 with the 93150 Oyster fliplock bracelet. Given your experience would you have any idea:
1. Why WSR says that my watch should have a jubilee bracelet when I bought it new from an AD with the 93150 on it?
2. Why the RSC serviced it in 2016 without requiring purchase of a jubilee bracelet?

Do you think that owing to some change in rules and procedures Rolex AD/ASC and RSC will no longer service my watch without requiring the purchase of a jubilee bracelet?

So this would have been before my time as a watchmaker, but I think I remember one of my previous coworkers saying that some models could be ordered by the AD with any bracelet that would fit. My best guess is this: your watch was sold to the AD by Rolex with a jubilee bracelet, and the AD thought it would sell better with the Submariner bracelet. They could then change the accompanying paperwork to match.

Here is an alternative idea: WSR is wrong. I have seen it wrong before, specifically a serial number coming up with the incorrect model number. That leads me to believe that other errors exist within the database.

What I hope to see happen for you is this - Rolex changes the bracelet style in WSR to your 93150. It's not a viable choice on the dropdown menu for me, but I have seen it listed as the correct bracelet for a GMT before. I suspect that Rolex will support the 93150 bracelet on a GMT, but will not allow for the addition of it.

[dgkula]

Thank you again for your insight! I'll update the thread when I hear back from the RSC via the AD.

[faimag]

The GMT in the 1990s was available with all three bracelets: Oyster 78360 (I guess the most common), 62510 Jubilee, and Oyster 78790 (short Oysterlock, like the Explorer's). You could order it with any configuration, but I presume you could also change it during purchase at the AD. I have also seen several GMTs from that era on the 93150 (long Oysterlock, like the Sub's) but I am not sure it that was a factory configuration or a post-hoc modification during service.

[worldofoyster]

Originally Posted by dgkula

But I am the original buyer from Watches of Switzerland in London. Are you suggesting that the AD swapped the bracelet out before selling it?

it's quite common back in the day to swap bracelet.

[7enderbender]

Remember that “AD” are just some random stores that get to sell Rolex products. They’re owned by somebody other than Rolex. When it comes to service, Rolex has the great benefit of allowing you to send your watch directly to one of their service centers that they actually operate (unlike, say Omega, who have some rather horrific third party contractors here in the US…). I’d recommend sending your watch to RSC Dallas and let them sort things out.

[minimalista]

Based on the comments here, when an AD or Authorized Service Center types in the serial number, does it indicate in what country the watch was originally sold? Does it give the long reference number that details all the options?

Thanks!

[dgkula]

Just an update. Rolex (RSC in Lititz, PA) has agreed to service my watch without requiring the purchase of a new bracelet. AD's hands were tied by the data in WSR and Rolex policies. The AD did say that the service ticket would allow them to service it again in the future even if Rolex does not "fix" the WSR entry.

[chro.nic]

It's nice to hear it's all coming together finally and working out for you!!!

.nic

[sevenzero]

great opportunity to add a jubilee bracelet hasselfree ;)