The situation in canada...

[42itus]

Originally Posted by Mick006

I think he is upset that people other than him are flipping watches for profit.

Makes sense?

I don’t know why I’m so intrigued. lol.


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[dbluevette]

I'm not a flipper.

[Chewbacca]

Can you imagine if someone at Rolex 50 years ago or whatever wondered if anyone would go through this nonsense for a red and blue bezel gmt watch?

Wilsdorf himself would likely call us losers, and I’d tell him he could be right.

[AbsolutelyROLEX!]

Let me try to simplify my point.

1. Rolex started controlling supply heavily (in many ways)
2. They told all there dealers to follow this strategy or risk losing their license
3. Only selected people started getting supply
4. Those select people sold to greys at inflated prices to make money, or directly to private buyers on sales forums.
5. An oversupply has now formed mainly at grey dealers.
6. The few of us that did not qualify as select buyers now cannot get get anything from the AD.
7. This is due to the fact that most of the watches were flipped by the people who were in the “select” group, which was what the ADs were trying to avoid.
8. Now all those watches are in grey dealers hands, at ridiculous prices, that us people that were not in the “select group” can afford.
9. Now that this pandemic has spread, this oversupply is just sitting everywhere, not getting sold

[AbsolutelyROLEX!]

Originally Posted by Mick006

I think he is upset that people other than him are flipping watches for profit.

Again wrong, as I already explained a few times
Flipping has gone on for along time by a lot of people
At one time on this forum, there were a LOT of successful flippers
There was a lot to go around. Everybody bought and sold, made some money everybody was happy
Everybody had a choice, buy grey or dealer, no problem
Now everything is a mess

[aaronch]

Originally Posted by AbsolutelyROLEX!

Let me try to simplify my point.

1. Rolex started controlling supply heavily (in many ways)
2. They told all there dealers to follow this strategy or risk losing their license
3. Only selected people started getting supply
4. Those select people sold to greys at inflated prices to make money, or directly to private buyers on sales forums.
5. An oversupply has now formed mainly at grey dealers.
6. The few of us that did not qualify as select buyers now cannot get get anything from the AD.
7. This is due to the fact that most of the watches were flipped by the people who were in the “select” group, which was what the ADs were trying to avoid.
8. Now all those watches are in grey dealers hands, at ridiculous prices, that us people that were not in the “select group” can afford.
9. Now that this pandemic has spread, this oversupply is just sitting everywhere, not getting sold

So you’re upset that you can’t get a watch from an AD because of people like you in the past who have flipped watches, thus creating the current situation?

Lol self awareness much?


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[aaronch]

Originally Posted by aaronch

So you’re upset that you can’t get a watch from an AD because of people like you in the past who have flipped watches, thus creating the current situation?

Lol self awareness much?


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In other words, ure upset at the situation you yourself helped create?


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[Yess]

This is one strange thread.
But very entertaining.

Two things: one, it's pretty hard for the AD to tell who the flippers are, unless they repeat purchases, or slip that they sold/flipped. Two, waiting for a watch, whether they are being sold to flippers or the general market still means waiting. Because the flippers are selling to a host of retail customers that the AD would have had to supply if a "flipper/grey" didn't exist in our reality!

[AbsolutelyROLEX!]

Originally Posted by Chewbacca

Can you imagine if someone at Rolex 50 years ago or whatever wondered if anyone would go through this nonsense for a red and blue bezel gmt watch?

Wilsdorf himself would likely call us losers, and I’d tell him he could be right.

Wilsdorf also would have wanted everyone to enjoy his watches
Not control supply and watch everything turn chaotic

[AbsolutelyROLEX!]

Originally Posted by aaronch

In other words, ure upset at the situation you yourself helped create?


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Wrong again
As already stated, I have been out of the game since the supply control started 3 years ago
I have never sold a watch over msrp like most others didnt at the time
When I sold, rolex had oversupply, enough to go around for everyome
I am definitely have not contributed to this problem

[AF_Rob]

Originally Posted by AbsolutelyROLEX!

Let me try to simplify my point.

1. Rolex started controlling supply heavily (in many ways)
2. They told all there dealers to follow this strategy or risk losing their license
3. Only selected people started getting supply
4. Those select people sold to greys at inflated prices to make money, or directly to private buyers on sales forums.
5. An oversupply has now formed mainly at grey dealers.
6. The few of us that did not qualify as select buyers now cannot get get anything from the AD.
7. This is due to the fact that most of the watches were flipped by the people who were in the “select” group, which was what the ADs were trying to avoid.
8. Now all those watches are in grey dealers hands, at ridiculous prices, that us people that were not in the “select group” can afford.
9. Now that this pandemic has spread, this oversupply is just sitting everywhere, not getting sold

I see your point. To make matters worse, those inflated prices won’t go down very far because of the price paid to obtain them. Most likely, they won’t budge because sellers would rather wait out the storm.

The watch you are looking to get is one you want for your private collection and don’t intend to sell in the near future, if I’m understanding you correctly... hence, the aggravation of not being able to obtain it.


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[Chewbacca]

Originally Posted by AbsolutelyROLEX!

Wilsdorf also would have wanted everyone to enjoy his watches
Not control supply and watch everything turn chaotic

I agree.

He was a master marketer and business person, but I also like to think he wasn’t a dick.

[Tommy Smokeshow]

i just finished reading all the replies and postings that was wasted 10 mins of my life but this is very amusing :) cheers fellow canuck!

[Mick006]

Doesn’t the fact that these watches are harder to get add to their cachet/perceived value?

I would think that fact makes it more rewarding when you finally acquire the watch you want. And it may also make you think twice about flipping again.

[AbsolutelyROLEX!]

Originally Posted by Yess

This is one strange thread.
But very entertaining.

Two things: one, it's pretty hard for the AD to tell who the flippers are, unless they repeat purchases, or slip that they sold/flipped. Two, waiting for a watch, whether they are being sold to flippers or the general market still means waiting. Because the flippers are selling to a host of retail customers that the AD would have had to supply if a "flipper/grey" didn't exist in our reality!

Had to read this a few times, I get the point
I think the hype started when not anyone could get what they wanted, when rolex told ADs to select their buyers
This created an illusion of undersupply and overdemand, which artificially drove up prices.
The “selected buyers” then capitalized on this situation, as any logical person would and selling bnib to greys
In reality, rolex “created” all these flippers unknowingly, that would nt normally exist, creating a new middleman so to speak

[AbsolutelyROLEX!]

Originally Posted by AF_Rob

I see your point. To make matters worse, those inflated prices won’t go down very far because of the price paid to obtain them. Most likely, they won’t budge because sellers would rather wait out the storm.

The watch you are looking to get is one you want for your private collection and don’t intend to sell in the near future, if I’m understanding you correctly... hence, the aggravation of not being able to obtain it.


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You got it! Finally an attentive reader!🍻

[AbsolutelyROLEX!]

Originally Posted by Mick006

Doesn’t the fact that these watches are harder to get add to their cachet/perceived value?

I would think that fact makes it more rewarding when you finally acquire the watch you want. And it may also make you think twice about flipping again.

You also nailed it! Thanks man!

[Smarties]

I bought 7 watches ( Rolex and Tudor) over the past 3.5 years. Never sold any and have no plan to sell any but to buy more.

[AbsolutelyROLEX!]

Originally Posted by Smarties

I bought 7 watches ( Rolex and Tudor) over the past 3.5 years. Never sold any and have no plan to sell any but to buy more.

Well great good for you!
I wish I could do that
One at a time is all I can do

[RolexNoob604]

Can I ask where you get the evidence of Rolex is controlling their supply instead of the demand have increased over the years due to the past 10 years of economic boom? Is it your assumption or do you have facts backing your words?

Second, even if Rolex is limiting their supply, that's their business and they can do whatever they are pleased with. If selling less and making less money is what they want so be it, I don't see any problems with it.

The real problem is the flippers because they are only in the market to make money and not to enjoy the watch. They bought the watch not to wear but to make a profit. If these people weren't in the market, there will be more supplies for real watch collectors. Rolex did not and do not want flippers flipping their watches to make a profit so real watch collectors could not purchase the watch they desire for years.

Please explain why this is Rolex's fault and not the flippers?

[Cloudchaser]

OP, I am a fellow flipper. Let me try to help you out...

You sold this watch in the last month (in the process naming your AD; I am guessing they didn't sell too many of that model on that exact day):

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=730770

Then you sorta went weird by negotiating a price with a reseller without any intent but to show everyone how badly resellers are struggling (classic concern troll maneuver):

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=734158

In doing that, I think a few people (rightfully) felt as though you had trolled TRF (in fact, a mod mentioned that specifically).

As if that weren't enough, you are now back to complain about 1) your AD accusing you (rightfully again it would seem) of flipping watches and 2) how unfair it is that an AD would choose to not sell to you.

Are you seriously so confused? Or are you trolling us? I know where I'd bet my money.

[Andad]

Originally Posted by Cloudchaser

OP, I am a fellow flipper. Let me try to help you out...

You sold this watch in the last month (in the process naming your AD; I am guessing they didn't sell too many of that model on that exact day):

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=730770

Then you sorta went weird by negotiating a price with a reseller without any intent but to show everyone how badly resellers are struggling (classic concern troll maneuver):

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=734158

In doing that, I think a few people (rightfully) felt as though you had trolled TRF (in fact, a mod mentioned that specifically).

As if that weren't enough, you are now back to complain about 1) your AD accusing you (rightfully again it would seem) of flipping watches and 2) how unfair it is that an AD would choose to not sell to you.

Are you seriously so confused? Or are you trolling us? I know where I'd bet my money.

Bingo.

We have a grey dealer complaining about Rolex availability from an AD?

Quit while you're behind Andy.

[just1time]

To the OP...You doing too much explaining. This is a battle you cant win on here. Many on here will always feel a way about you selling your watches and refute your claim of not being a flipper. Just let it go. They were your watches and no one elses. You did whatever you deemed best for you at that time.

If you get the watch you want form the dealer, then good for you. If you decide to sell it again, thats your prerogative. Its North America...land of Capitalism.

That being said, I understand the emotions running around here. I am Canadian and know how HARD it is to get Rolexes here. So its pretty frustrating to read that you got 4 desirable watches and for whatever reason sold them for profits.

But hey, like i said...your prerogative.

I got into the Rolex hobby last August. Acquired 3 Rolexes I love so much since then and don't intend on selling any. But if my business was failing as u claimed yours was, i honestly would do the same.

Good luck with your search.

[horseShu]

If someone wants the Pepsi badly, then they'd be willing to buy it at a grey dealer, even with the premium.

If one really wants the watch, and I do mean THE WATCH, why is MSRP so important?

My understanding so far, is that people want to get the watch at MSRP because:
- to give an impression that they are 'cool' because they have good connections with an AD,
- to flip at maximum profit.


Therefore, I think the only people complaining are flippers.

[G.Montag]

Originally Posted by AbsolutelyROLEX!

So 2 years ago, I was told by a certain AD here in Canada that I was put on the waiting list for a pepsi gmt by a salesperson that I had built some rep with.
Yesterday I emailed the AD and told them my story
The salesperson that answered me told me they never had a waiting list.
LIE # 1
I told the person that I had bought 4 other rolexes there over the years, and after 2 years was wondering if there was any chance of finally getting a pepsi, as I really want one for myself.
The salesperson asked me if I can prove that I still own any of the rolexes I had bought.
I answered him saying that no, when I get bored of them I sell them for something different.
I also said in a joking manner that I had looked online and there are hundreds listed there at ridiculous prices, so I thought that is what is normally is happening anyways, and that I didnt really feel like paying thousands more.
After that, no response....
LETDOWN # 1

Slowly I am getting very perturbed.
When I see all the bnib ones here and every other forum, just sitting there listed for thousands more, and I cant get one because of that.
This happens to be one that I really want for myself.
Now before everybody jumps on me saying “well you’re a flipper arent you, serves you right!
Let me make this statement and rebuttal:
I have to prove that I am not a flipper? What difference does that make, when probably 70% of the hot models get flipped anyways?!?
I mean look here, Pepsis, hulks, daytonas, batmans, daytonas rootbeers daytonas
One after the other bnib
Where did they all come from?! FROM FLIPPERS!
People that got them from AD’s and sell them for profit!
Now, I dont blame them, I blame Rolex, for making the new rules 3 years ago to only sell to supposed non-flippers.
What happened? It only enabled them.
The famous economist milton friedman had the correct view:
As in the narcotics industry, as soon as you try to control and limit the supply, it only ends up enabling the illegal underground dealings, and only the large cartels become successful and survive, and drives up price and demand.
This happened during prohibition in the 30’s, after which the government finally said “well that didnt go too well, i guess we will stop controlling that”
This is what has happened to rolex. Their plan has backfired.

AD’s will happily sell watches to flippers...just not at MSRP. Why on earth would they want to do that? If you are familiar with “the famous economist Milton Friedman” you have surely heard of the concept of supply and demand. When demand increases and supply remains constant, what happens to the price?

Also, where do you think grey dealers get their supply of “rare” BNIB watches (often with factory stickers still on)? For the most part, it’s not from guys like you, languishing on a waitlist for two years hoping to flip a single piece. If you want to be in the flipping game, you have to move on with the times. AD’s offload directly to greys at significant markups, this is a well-known fact. But they do it in a clandestine fashion because the practice is not officially encouraged by Rolex.

At the end of day, none of this should upset someone who likes to quote Milton Friedman. That’s just how the market economy works.

[Ocog]

No need to buy from a grey dealer. You just have to sell to the AD that your are a potentially good customer.

Ill leave the rest to your imagination but if any of you are good in sales its not too difficult to get what you want. I got my Submariner Hulk in less than 2 weeks at a high traffic dealer in Los Angeles.

I understand not everyone has these abilities, but those who do and know how to sell yourself well then it is pretty smooth sailing.

[Harry-57]

Originally Posted by AbsolutelyROLEX!

You are absolutely right
But like I said...MOST OF US ARE FLIPPERS ANYWAYS! LOL

I understand your situation, but please don't claim we are all to blame for your first world predicament. We are not all flippers. Most of us are not flippers.

It's not a good idea to simultaneously seek sympathy and support whilst burning bridges.

[mstauqir]

Originally Posted by AbsolutelyROLEX!

You are absolutely right
But like I said...MOST OF US ARE FLIPPERS ANYWAYS! LOL

Then why the complaining about not wanting to pay the premium? You are part of the problem. It is what it is!

[Gazoak]

I've no sympathy for you. I have retained and never sold any of my Rolex watches.

[georgekart]

Originally Posted by AbsolutelyROLEX!

Your issue is actually with people who buy from grey dealers. Because they buy it at that price setting precedent. If the market didn't agree to buy for that price, the price would fall. If Rolex was to produce so many watches they'd sell under MSRP, I'm willing to bet many people would not be interested in them.

Wrong again
If all those watches were being bought up, i wouldnt complain
But there is an oversupply now at inflated prices and nobody is buying

Greys are out there to make money, if they can't sell at market prices (like now, due to pandemic limiting amount of people willing to buy watches at current market price), the will lower the price because they still have bills to pay and a watch that's stuck in inventory for ages doesn't make them money and thus the market price will decrease. We see so many watches taking a hit now due to people not buying as much. Seems like they're selling well enough at slightly lowered prices to have more people wanting the watches at new market price than watches being available. With Rolex being closed, I don't see that changing drastically either for BLRO.

You have to remember there aren't that many BLROs out there, first of all the ceramic Pepsi bezel insert is hard to produce, there are many variations that happened already allegedly to decrease the percentage of defective bezel inserts. Also the bezel on BLRO is different than on BLNR or LN or CHNR bezels. Because the BLRO insert is brittle. Add being the iconic bezel for GMT and the better looking SS GMT, many people want it and not many are being produced. If you think nobody is buying them, think again.