Porsche just another BMW Audi Mercedes Volvo, now.

[superdog]

Originally Posted by V25V

A competent driver should be able to lap in a cayman/boxster faster than an RS6. Zero question. I have raced for many years and instruct with various track day orgs and the fact is about 90% of track day goers cannot give the car anywhere close to 100%. A cayman/boxster or any car with that much less HP than yours needs to use what it has to it’s advantage to put a lap together. Most cannot do that.

Overall as a former bmw owner and now Porsche owner, I disagree that Porsche is not better than all of the others noted.


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P car engineering is a step above. I do not have your experience or expertise. But I have a lot of hours on the road and a good amount on the track. I have driven a lot of different cars. And I’ve driven every type of exotic/Supercar there is.

I’d choose a cayman or 911 every time. Imho, Porsche just makes a better car. All around.

And given that I have an R8 right now, which I also love, I’d still take the 911 if I had to choose.

[fozzyf18]

Originally Posted by superdog

I am pretty much of the camp that 911’s just look great. I kid you not. New. Old. I love them all from the most basic version to the top tier. I just love the way they look.

Perfectly stated. The 911 is timeless in its appearance, and though it has evolved over the many years, you can still see the original design in its lineage of current offerings which I find impressive. Very few cars can claim the same, perhaps Volvo because "they are boxy but they are good", but if you look at the evolution of the Corvette there are significant body changes through the years.

[77T]

I was glad to see Fcars were not lumped into the “others” by comparo.


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[superdog]

Originally Posted by enjoythemusic

Real men drive Lotus :)

Nah.

[hundreds]

Agreed. Porsche doesn’t have the same cachet to me as before. I have a Huracan and some times it just feels like any other car to me, which it kind of is since it’s an entry level “supercar” and basically an Audi.

Ferrari is still the brand that seems to be holding onto that special badge well.

[Willyjo]

I still have my first (and only) Porsche - 1999 996. Was a milestone for me then, and has great sentimental value (and I promised it to my son).



Anyone get the 911 Sport Classic? That seems incredible.

https://media.porsche.com/mediakit/911-sport-classic


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[V25V]

Originally Posted by GB-man

New money is the Huracan 100% or now the Urus haha

lol so true.

[Chiboy]

I know, like all of Chewbacca's threads, that this isn't serious. But...

I see a gazillion Macans and Cayennes. They are everywhere.

I don't see 911s to be as rare or "special" as I did as a kid. But maybe that is partially because of where I live. As Chewy would say, "The help drive 911s..."

I have a 991 Cab and nothing about it seems exotic or rare, although it's my favorite car ever. I've had it almost 10 years now, and have no designs on selling it. But I will say that I have only seen on in my color combo over the years -- white with blue top. So that's kinda fun, as every other car I've owned I see similar looking ones around. Maybe it's just that it's a dumb combo, so few chose it.

[BroncoOne]

Originally Posted by SMD

Just an anecdote -- I have tracked my rs6 at a few Porsche events and outside of the GT3s, etc, your 911, cayman, Boxster cannot keep up. Great on the corners but that TTV8 is a beast.

Same with my old gated shifter R8. I loved that car. Sold it last year.

A 911 Turbo and GT3 are still special cars. The rest are fine. This is a very subjective personal opinion. Every model has its trade offs but if you want some more practicality, an RS5 and even an R8 is a solid daily driver all year and the RS models are under the radar like a Porsche just can’t (and should not) be.

[brandrea]

#gofundmebrandrea911

Donations are now open

[superdog]

Originally Posted by hundreds

Agreed. Porsche doesn’t have the same cachet to me as before. I have a Huracan and some times it just feels like any other car to me, which it kind of is since it’s an entry level “supercar” and basically an Audi.

Ferrari is still the brand that seems to be holding onto that special badge well.

Sadly I agree. On all.

And I love the huracan. I had an evo. I still miss it. Crazy though how they have become somewhat common in the car world. They are everywhere. Urus’s too.

A car dreams are made of. But with all the incredible cars out today they are just a bit entry level. Which is bonkers to say.

Agree on Ferrari. But even a 488 or similar is common. Or not exactly special. If it’s a pista different story. Similar with all their cars.

Love the F8, but hard for me to even tell it from other f cars at times

All these brands have blown up. And they are riding the wave. As they should it’s business. But it makes them all lore common. Less special.

But imho, a turbo s while awesome is just another 911. Which I like. But unless it’s a limited car, I think most brands, if not all have lost their cache.

Similar to watches imo. I’m in Miami right now. Rolex everywhere. When you see stuff all the time, it’s just not special anymore.

[superdog]

Originally Posted by brandrea

#gofundmebrandrea911

Donations are now open

[pickettt]

Originally Posted by superdog

I am pretty much of the camp that 911’s just look great. I kid you not. New. Old. I love them all from the most basic version to the top tier. I just love the way they look.

Agreed. The only real sports car I’d buy…if I were in the market.

[codecow]

I had 2 911s and now I drive a Colorado ZR2. As a vehicle for around town, more useful plus you can take speed bumps at 30mph without anything breaking.

I drove the entire lineup to 4S back to back at Sonoma raceway a few years back at a Porsche event. Since I was driving a 911 as my daily then I was fastest in the 4S.

My last one I ordered it exactly how I wanted with paint to sample and everything and I ended up selling it. I think I like watches better than cars.

[Chiboy]

Originally Posted by BroncoOne

A 911 Turbo and GT3 are still special cars. The rest are fine. This is a very subjective personal opinion. Every model has its trade offs but if you want some more practicality, an RS5 and even an R8 is a solid daily driver all year and the RS models are under the radar like a Porsche just can’t (and should not) be.

The one thing I'd say having owned two 911s, and having lots of friends who have owned Audis:

911s tend to be super reliable and although parts are expensive, things seldom break. I have heard the opposite from Audi owners. In fact last weekend I saw a friend driving an R5. I asked what happened to his RS3. It needed a $7k transmission job and he traded it in for the quote he had just received on it minus the $7k. I guess he liked it enough to ante up for another Audi.

[SDGT3]

Originally Posted by Chiboy

I know, like all of Chewbacca's threads, that this isn't serious. But...

I see a gazillion Macans and Cayennes. They are everywhere.

The premise of the thread is a bit ridiculous as Cayennes and Macans are appliances that can be cross shopped with a BMW X5 X3, Mercedes GLE etc. I have no idea why Volvo was included in the discussion, but even Lambo and Ferrari are making SUVs now. It's the way it is and will be their cash cows. The Cayenne nearly saved Porsche from financial ruin many years ago.

The 911 is as iconic as a Rolex Submariner and as someone once said, it's a athlete, not a body builder in terms of performance.

For me, I've owned and driven the GT3 versions since they started to import them to North America nearly 20 years ago. Each iteration is better than the next. Pleasing to the eye, ears and seat of the pants. The only place where it will hurt is the wallet.

I strongly suggest Chewie go to a P car dealer and tell them he wants the latest and greatest version of the 992 GT3RS and post haste. $100k+ ADMs and wait times will help him feel he's got a special car.

[Chewbacca]

Originally Posted by enjoythemusic

Real men drive Lotus :)

I don’t fit.

[Chewbacca]

Originally Posted by fozzyf18

Chewie, the fact that a man of your wealth and stature cares enough to know such a detail about a worker that provides a service to you says a lot about your character.

Contrary to perception, I care much about the working man and woman who picks themself up and makes something of themself. My money now makes my money. I am a lucky one. But don’t kid yourself, he comes to my home, I don’t go to his. Never would.

[Chewbacca]

Originally Posted by Chiboy

I know, like all of Chewbacca's threads, that this isn't serious. But...

Wat! My good buddy Mark would like a word.

[SMD]

Originally Posted by SDGT3

The premise of the thread is a bit ridiculous as Cayennes and Macans are appliances that can be cross shopped with a BMW X5 X3, Mercedes GLE etc. I have no idea why Volvo was included in the discussion, but even Lambo and Ferrari are making SUVs now. It's the way it is and will be their cash cows. The Cayenne nearly saved Porsche from financial ruin many years ago.

The 911 is as iconic as a Rolex Submariner and as someone once said, it's a athlete, not a body builder in terms of performance.

For me, I've owned and driven the GT3 versions since they started to import them to North America nearly 20 years ago. Each iteration is better than the next. Pleasing to the eye, ears and seat of the pants. The only place where it will hurt is the wallet.

I strongly suggest Chewie go to a P car dealer and tell them he wants the latest and greatest version of the 992 GT3RS and post haste. $100k+ ADMs and wait times will help him feel he's got a special car.

A V12 almost 500K car (when optioned) will never be their cash cow. Lambo, Porsche and others?. Absolutely, but the Purosangue is not going to fill that role at Ferrari.

[golftime]

I have owned 911's dating back to air cooled motors, and currently own a 997.2S-manual transmission. I have also owned Cayennes including my current 2023S. I also worked for a high-line wholesaler up till 2014 during which I got the pleasure to drive lots of high end cars, which helped me become a fan of Porsche.

If your definition of special is based on scarcity, Porsches can be found everywhere, so they are not very rare. If special is based upon the driving experience, that is the connection between the driver and the road combined with the performance of the vehicle, they are still the gold standard.

That said however, there is no doubt the gap with other manufacturers has narrowed significantly. It's probably because the industry as a whole is pretty mature, other than the EV stuff that is developing in leaps and bounds. Given the current prices of Porsches, I am beginning to question whether they offer the same "value" they did at one time (if I can say that with a straight face.) The fact is there are lots of options these days and most of them are pretty darn good.

[sambb]

have owned all the marques and italian exotics. Nothing special about them anymore, esp with electric cars out there. However, on the track is the place to have fun with them. 99% of people never track. The exotics are about the attention and lifestyle. P-cars are nice machines, but not special. However, they can make you FEEL special if you are still in the wonder of the past and the racing history. Maybe the same could be said about a rolex also. In the end - these are luxury goods. I have friends who could care less about sports cars, but put them in front of luxury fashion and they love it. Then again, i have another colleague who had an F-car for 2 years who sold it and said he preferred 400k in the S&P500 - he said the S&P was far better than an F-Car. To each his or her own. P-cars are nice. That doesnt mean they are special, but nothing wrong with them being nice and in my mind they are great cars - there are a lot of great cars!

To shift a bit - i had a lot of fun with sports cars, but driving with the top down on a nice convertible on an 75 degree day is magical even at 35 mph. In fact, probably more enjoyable than 135 mph.

[enjoythemusic]

^^^ epic post!

Some of the most fun... the drop-top Bentley GTC through winding VT RT9 roads during leaf-peeping season, then wife and I pull over at this small pond for a picnic.

One time while joyriding the Ferrari 308 GTS through small New England towns on July 4.... I totally accidentally was traffic-cop-waived right into being part of a small-town's parade. Alas, had no candy to throw to the kids :(

[ExplorerI]

I think the 993 and 997 gen 911s will go down as special cars in history. If I bought a modern Porsche I’d do the Cayman gt4

[Regalio]

Originally Posted by Willyjo

I still have my first (and only) Porsche - 1999 996. Was a milestone for me then, and has great sentimental value (and I promised it to my son).



Anyone get the 911 Sport Classic? That seems incredible.

https://media.porsche.com/mediakit/911-sport-classic


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What an inheritance. Lucky son

[Giovannibravo]

My father was looking at a 911 around 15 years ago. Porsche seemed to be more special then. I remember going to the dealership and only seeing Boxsters and 911s on the showroom floor. It was definitely more exclusive.

However, it is still exclusive if you buy the top range models (i.e., GT3, GT4, etc)

[huncho]

Originally Posted by Giovannibravo

My father was looking at a 911 around 15 years ago. Porsche seemed to be more special then. I remember going to the dealership and only seeing Boxsters and 911s on the showroom floor. It was definitely more exclusive.

However, it is still exclusive if you buy the top range models (i.e., GT3, GT4, etc)

i would say all 911s are still exclusive. they start at around 120 so you're likely paying 150+ out the door. that's a price range most people in regular office jobs can't afford and a tier above most bmw/merc/audi models. you're talking around a 2k monthly at that point for base models so people making less than 300k aren't sniffing one even on credit, and that's not exactly a common salary even in places like nyc

even a 10 yr old 991 goes for around the same price as a base bmw m3

[superdog]

Originally Posted by golftime

I have owned 911's dating back to air cooled motors, and currently own a 997.2S-manual transmission. I have also owned Cayennes including my current 2023S. I also worked for a high-line wholesaler up till 2014 during which I got the pleasure to drive lots of high end cars, which helped me become a fan of Porsche.

If your definition of special is based on scarcity, Porsches can be found everywhere, so they are not very rare. If special is based upon the driving experience, that is the connection between the driver and the road combined with the performance of the vehicle, they are still the gold standard.

That said however, there is no doubt the gap with other manufacturers has narrowed significantly. It's probably because the industry as a whole is pretty mature, other than the EV stuff that is developing in leaps and bounds. Given the current prices of Porsches, I am beginning to question whether they offer the same "value" they did at one time (if I can say that with a straight face.) The fact is there are lots of options these days and most of them are pretty darn good.

Originally Posted by sambb

have owned all the marques and italian exotics. Nothing special about them anymore, esp with electric cars out there. However, on the track is the place to have fun with them. 99% of people never track. The exotics are about the attention and lifestyle. P-cars are nice machines, but not special. However, they can make you FEEL special if you are still in the wonder of the past and the racing history. Maybe the same could be said about a rolex also. In the end - these are luxury goods. I have friends who could care less about sports cars, but put them in front of luxury fashion and they love it. Then again, i have another colleague who had an F-car for 2 years who sold it and said he preferred 400k in the S&P500 - he said the S&P was far better than an F-Car. To each his or her own. P-cars are nice. That doesnt mean they are special, but nothing wrong with them being nice and in my mind they are great cars - there are a lot of great cars!

To shift a bit - i had a lot of fun with sports cars, but driving with the top down on a nice convertible on an 75 degree day is magical even at 35 mph. In fact, probably more enjoyable than 135 mph.

Both are awesome posts. Just awesome.

[superdog]

Originally Posted by enjoythemusic

^^^ epic post!

Some of the most fun... the drop-top Bentley GTC through winding VT RT9 roads during leaf-peeping season, then wife and I pull over at this small pond for a picnic.

One time while joyriding the Ferrari 308 GTS through small New England towns on July 4.... I totally accidentally was traffic-cop-waived right into being part of a small-town's parade. Alas, had no candy to throw to the kids :(

GTC. Such a great driving experience.

[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by superdog

GTC. Such a great driving experience.

Many known defects and very high depreciation aside, the Bentley GTC was indeed a fun car. Especially in the snow with Blizzak tires, as this was the most fun DRIVING her.

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BMW HELP: Since we have many excellent and influential drivers and automotive personalities here on TRF, can any of you kindly help BMW engineer proper steering feel into their automotive products? Many thanks.