1601 Datejust real or fake?

[rolexology]

Hi, I'm trying to get opinion from you guys who have more experience about Rolex watches than myself. A guy online put this this watch up for sale and when I looked up the serial number online that it is made in 1978 while he claimed that it is made in 1970. When I questioned him about this he said what he meant was 70's not 1970.

Then I look at the date wheel the number 6 is different unlike other datejust I see online that is made in 1978. The line in number 6 is all connected on his watch. Also on the bottom of the dial it says swiss only not T SWISS T when I clearly can see there is lume dots on the dial and hands. What do guys think? Is this a genuine rolex datejust 1601? Photos are attached.

[Nickn]

Looks like a genuine 1601
Perhaps the dial and date wheel have been changed
Made in 1970 nade in the 1970’s easy mistake to type

[rolexology]

thanks for your reply. He asked for $2750 (USD) do you think it is worth the price if both dial and datewheel have been changed? and I don't know if those replacements are with genuines. If he didn't disclose this in his ad it makes me wonder what else.

[Claven2]

I would want higher res photos of the dial.

The date wheel is not necessarily replaced. It could be a service dial, but better photos needed.

On a 1601, I dont mind service parts. This model is not exactly a gmt or sub and isn't hugely devalued by authentic newer parts.

[rolexology]

Have you ever found a DJ date wheel with a number 6 looking like that because I haven't. If you have a reference would be appreciated. I browsed images of 1601 dated 1970-1978 all number 6 and 9 are not like I see on his watch. I found on Ebay date wheels with number 6 like that are aftermarket parts. Seller said he doesn't have the tool to open the back case. He said that picture was taken at a service place he visited a while back. Do you also see the engraving of serial/model numbers? They appear to be shallower than I commonly see. I know this is relatively not too expensive for a gen but it is worthless to me if it is not.

edit: I wanted to add that this watch does not come with original paperworks

[Dan S]

The original "piepan" dial will have a step down to a recessed outer ring, while most service dials are flat all the way to the edge. The photo isn't good enough for me to distinguish that detail.

[rolexology]

Originally Posted by Dan S

The original "piepan" dial will have a step down to a recessed outer ring, while most service dials are flat all the way to the edge. The photo isn't good enough for me to distinguish that detail.

Assuming the movement is a gen and dial is a service dial and date wheel is a 3rd party would you think $2750 is a fair price for this model/year? I really value your opinion. I will ask him for more detailed pics.

[L.K Johnson]

Originally Posted by Dan S

The original "piepan" dial will have a step down to a recessed outer ring, while most service dials are flat all the way to the edge. The photo isn't good enough for me to distinguish that detail.

Is there flat dials for 1601 as well? Thought the pie pan feature was made to fit the movement and the dial neatly together in the case which was not possible with a flat dial on the 16XX series? Is that a myth? Thought flat dials only applied to 5-digit DJ:s...?

[offrdmania]

It looks like a pie pan dial to me. Easy to zoom in on using a phone

[Kingface66]

Originally Posted by rolexology

Have you ever found a DJ date wheel with a number 6 looking like that because I haven't. If you have a reference would be appreciated. I browsed images of 1601 dated 1970-1978 all number 6 and 9 are not like I see on his watch. I found on Ebay date wheels with number 6 like that are aftermarket parts. Seller said he doesn't have the tool to open the back case. He said that picture was taken at a service place he visited a while back. Do you also see the engraving of serial/model numbers? They appear to be shallower than I commonly see. I know this is relatively not too expensive for a gen but it is worthless to me if it is not.

edit: I wanted to add that this watch does not come with original paperworks

You'll find 6's open on "6" "16" but not on "26"

https://www.hqmilton.com/timepieces/...pagne-dial-A89

[rolexology]

Originally Posted by Kingface66

You'll find 6's open on "6" "16" but not on "26"

Good observation, thanks. I didn't catch that before. How about the dial with SWISS only writing and no T SWISS T ? Do you think the dial was replaced or it is just a variance? And what do you think about the price he's asking at $2750. Do you think it is a fair price?

[Claven2]

Originally Posted by Dan S

The original "piepan" dial will have a step down to a recessed outer ring, while most service dials are flat all the way to the edge. The photo isn't good enough for me to distinguish that detail.

I don't think you are right. EVERY 160X service dial I have seen, including the one RSC put in a watch last month for me, were piepan like the originals. The only difference are the swiss markings at 6 o'clock, the type of lume and the spacing of the dial lettering.

I've personally never seen RSC fit a flat dial on a 160X, though I suppose maybe it happened at some point? I could not say for certain, but it is NOT the norm.

[Nickn]

A service dial on a 1601 would be a pan pie dial

[nigelk]

Originally Posted by Kingface66

You'll find 6's open on "6" "16" but not on "26"

https://www.hqmilton.com/timepieces/...pagne-dial-A89

wow i never knew this! thanks for that info!

Also, is there a deep scratch on the bezel at the bottom? The bezel doesnt look the sharpest to me but it could just be the photos.

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by Claven2

I don't think you are right. EVERY 160X service dial I have seen, including the one RSC put in a watch last month for me, were piepan like the originals.

Interesting, my experience is different, but that's good to know.

[SubMarine]

Aftermarket date wheel, service dial, polished case.

[Claven2]

Originally Posted by Dan S

Interesting, my experience is different, but that's good to know.

Honestly, I don't think a flat dial would fit the case. The movement t and bez seat have different geometry than 5 digit case.

I do believe the OP's is an rsc service dial though. It matches the letter spacing of a couple known service dials I have here.

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by Claven2

Honestly, I don't think a flat dial would fit the case. The movement t and bez seat have different geometry than 5 digit case.

I have firsthand knowledge to the contrary, but I really have no desire to argue about it.

[Claven2]

Originally Posted by Dan S

I have firsthand knowledge to the contrary, but I really have no desire to argue about it.

No need to argue. But if you have proof of this, would love to see a picture. When I talked to rsc last month during my 1601 refurb, they stated all the service dials for 160x watches were piepan.

I doubt they were lying on purpose.

[Tools]

It's a 50 year old watch.

You can't expect a watch of this age to have everything on it that it was born with. What you can hope for is that it's condition and history would indicate that it has been taken care of and serviced on occasion.

[Patou Batemanou]

Originally Posted by Tools

It's a 50 year old watch.

You can't expect a watch of this age to have everything on it that it was born with. What you can hope for is that it's condition and history would indicate that it has been taken care of and serviced on occasion.

Of course you can. And I wouldn't consider that kind of watch if i wasn't sure it is 100% sotck.

Plenty of DJ 16xx available on the market, just pick the right one.

This one seems legit to me, and the price is fair.

[rolexology]

I wouldn't mind if it was a service dial as long as it is an original. The seller already sold the watch to someone. I couldn't convince myself to pull the trigger because of some doubts that I have. Guys thanks for replying I'm learning new things from you.

[baberuth1988]

should my 1601 sound slower or diffrent then my 16013? please help

[alwayshere]

Originally Posted by baberuth1988

should my 1601 sound slower or diffrent then my 16013? please help

what do you mean sound slower?

the beats per second is lower on the 1601 vs. 16013 given newer caliber on the latter so technically its less "smooth" re: seconds hand sweep if that's what you are getting at.

[offrdmania]

Originally Posted by baberuth1988

should my 1601 sound slower or diffrent then my 16013? please help

Please start your own thread so that people dont confuse your question with the topic of the 4-year-old thread above.

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by offrdmania

Please start your own thread so that people dont confuse your question with the topic of the 4-year-old thread above.

I think I will be confused even if he starts his own thread.