Why do you love Patek?

[C. Davidson]

I've had a growing interest in Patek Philippe recently. I was wondering why those of you on TRF that have a Patek, love them so dearly?

Any and all comments would be greatly appreciated.

[DSJ]

What's not to love?

Quality, heritage, value, legacy for starters.

[RW16610]

I also LOVE Patek Philippe watches! My passion for them has also been growing (have 3 normal high end watches so swining for the fences next probably). They are VERY exclusive with lower production numbers than most well known brands. A history like none other, how he would custom make watches for Royalty (the Queen). The innovations like Grand complication, worlds thinnest movements and so on. Patek Philippe just has too much about them to love. Prices are high but in my opinion you more so get what you pay for with these, absolutely amazing in every aspect from their slogan to the watches themselvs

[iwantagmt]

There are really 3 things I like about Patek.

1. They do NOT skimp on their low end. Every movement is made with great care, even if its only going into a $20,000 watch. For example, the keyless works is an area I pay attention to when possible, because it is seldom seen and is therefore an indicator of how much the maker cares. Here is a link illustrating just this...

http://www.timezone.com/library/horo...71464248171541

2. History.
-The Graves Watch
-The First Wrist Watch
-The most complicated watches ever
-The thinnest auto movement
-MANY others!

3. Gyromax balance. Simply the most elegant balance wheel ever. Also extremely effective as it allows maximum balance diameter and adjustable from above. Its merits are obvious from its additional presence in AP and FP Journe watches.

Unfortunately, there are also things I dont like.

1. I really cannot stand the "dots" around the outside of most of their dials. I have tried to get over this but they just look to me like the wax paper candy dots. I love the 5146 and 5070 though!

2. I wish that they would be more "aggressive" in the movement bridge decoration. The way their current movements are constructed there are almost zero complex angles showcasing the craft. For example, the first pic below is a VC 1400...notice the complex interior angles of anglage on the wheel train bridge. Next is a comparable patek without such work:

I just wish that Patek would have a liitle more "fun" with their movement and really flex their muscles in the finishing department.

[boa2]

Originally Posted by RW16610

I also LOVE Patek Philippe watches! My passion for them has also been growing (have 3 normal high end watches so swining for the fences next probably). They are VERY exclusive with lower production numbers than most well known brands. A history like none other, how he would custom make watches for Royalty (the Queen). The innovations like Grand complication, worlds thinnest movements and so on. Patek Philippe just has too much about them to love. Prices are high but in my opinion you more so get what you pay for with these, absolutely amazing in every aspect from their slogan to the watches themselvs

There are many things I love about Patek as well. Beautiful finishing, high quality watches.

To counter a point, however, their production numbers are in fact higher than many other brands. They produce more watches than AP, VC or Lange, for example. Nothing compared to Rolex or Omega, of course, but Patek is playing a different game than either of them.

One thing about Patek that bugs me is that I think their best efforts are reserved for their more complicated watches...annual calendars and above. From a technical perspective, the Calatrava line is not at the level of a Lange 1 or an F.P. Journe Chronometre Souverain, both of which are in the same price range. I think Patek could stretch their skillset a bit more in this range of their watches, but perhaps they don't need to do so.

[RW16610]

Originally Posted by boa2

There are many things I love about Patek as well. Beautiful finishing, high quality watches.

To counter a point, however, their production numbers are in fact higher than many other brands. They produce more watches than AP, VC or Lange, for example. Nothing compared to Rolex or Omega, of course, but Patek is playing a different game than either of them.

One thing about Patek that bugs me is that I think their best efforts are reserved for their more complicated watches...annual calendars and above. From a technical perspective, the Calatrava line is not at the level of a Lange 1 or an F.P. Journe Chronometre Souverain, both of which are in the same price range. I think Patek could stretch their skillset a bit more in this range of their watches, but perhaps they don't need to do so.

That is true, and I forgot. Herd before their annual production numbers were around 20,000 watches to be shipped world wide but recently herd it was actually more than double that, 40,000 - 50,000 a year. Half of that was Quartz and the other half was mechanical. For the general human populaton that is fantastic but indeed, for the price range, class and amount of watches those brands you listed make it is a bit it seems. Either way though still within a good range for me I think with their history, recognition etc they play the same game Rolex does. Can get away with stuff some other brands could not but maybe this is not true. The Grand complication watches are indeed their grails over all and could see how or why they would focus so much on them considering their costs but indeed, all should get that attention for what they are.

[boa2]

Originally Posted by RW16610

That is true, and I forgot. Herd before their annual production numbers were around 20,000 watches to be shipped world wide but recently herd it was actually more than double that, 40,000 - 50,000 a year. Half of that was Quartz and the other half was mechanical. For the general human populaton that is fantastic but indeed, for the price range, class and amount of watches those brands you listed make it is a bit it seems. Either way though still within a good range for me I think with their history, recognition etc they play the same game Rolex does. Can get away with stuff some other brands could not but maybe this is not true. The Grand complication watches are indeed their grails over all and could see how or why they would focus so much on them considering their costs but indeed, all should get that attention for what they are.

True. Compared to the general population, and considering that a meaningful portion of those are women's watches, the production is not so high. In any case, nothing would deter me from owning one. The 5135 and the 5960 are two of my favorites.

[RW16610]

Originally Posted by iwantagmt

There are really 3 things I like about Patek.

1. They do NOT skimp on their low end. Every movement is made with great care, even if its only going into a $20,000 watch. For example, the keyless works is an area I pay attention to when possible, because it is seldom seen and is therefore an indicator of how much the maker cares. Here is a link illustrating just this...

http://www.timezone.com/library/horo...71464248171541

2. History.
-The Graves Watch
-The First Wrist Watch
-The most complicated watches ever
-The thinnest auto movement
-MANY others!

3. Gyromax balance. Simply the most elegant balance wheel ever. Also extremely effective as it allows maximum balance diameter and adjustable from above. Its merits are obvious from its additional presence in AP and FP Journe watches.

Unfortunately, there are also things I dont like.

1. I really cannot stand the "dots" around the outside of most of their dials. I have tried to get over this but they just look to me like the wax paper candy dots. I love the 5146 and 5070 though!

2. I wish that they would be more "aggressive" in the movement bridge decoration. The way their current movements are constructed there are almost zero complex angles showcasing the craft. For example, the first pic below is a VC 1400...notice the complex interior angles of anglage on the wheel train bridge. Next is a comparable patek without such work:

I just wish that Patek would have a liitle more "fun" with their movement and really flex their muscles in the finishing department.

Some excellent points you make there! Good comparison picture with the movement. Reffering to my "assumption" below, it seems Patek Philippe can play the Rolex game. Their history, recognition, image etc etc allows them to get away with stuff / cutting corners other brands could not. That being said though both movements look fantastic and for the VC being lesser known it is nice they put more into it. Making stuff even more exclusive in some ways.

Originally Posted by boa2

True. Compared to the general population, and considering that a meaningful portion of those are women's watches, the production is not so high. In any case, nothing would deter me from owning one. The 5135 and the 5960 are two of my favorites.

Exactly, it is nice to have other options too though. Sometimes it can get boaring to buy the same brand of watches all the time, other brands do stuff different ways etc so I think for those who can actually afford to collect Patek Philippe, Adumars Piguet, VC etc etc it is good variety. Even with those low numbers it is tough to get a lot of Patek Philippe watches new from what I have herd. A lot of them would go for a premium. In all of Toronto we only have 1 single dealer that sells them! Now sure the city does not have nearly as many wealthy people as New York (other big US cities) and many others but that is incredible and can only imagine how tough it would be to get certain models there.

Production numbers do not normally bother me because like stated above, considering the human population and the fact watch lovers are the minority it is not bad. I know MANY people who could buy literally any watch they wanted to at this very moment but shockingly have no interest in expensive watches, cars, clothes etc etc. Just let their hundreds of thousands / even millions sit and waste life but different strokes for different folks I guess, more watches for us

[boa2]

Originally Posted by RW16610

Some excellent points you make there! Good comparison picture with the movement. Reffering to my "assumption" below, it seems Patek Philippe can play the Rolex game. Their history, recognition, image etc etc allows them to get away with stuff / cutting corners other brands could not. That being said though both movements look fantastic and for the VC being lesser known it is nice they put more into it. Making stuff even more exclusive in some ways.


Exactly, it is nice to have other options too though. Sometimes it can get boaring to buy the same brand of watches all the time, other brands do stuff different ways etc so I think for those who can actually afford to collect Patek Philippe, Adumars Piguet, VC etc etc it is good variety. Even with those low numbers it is tough to get a lot of Patek Philippe watches new from what I have herd. A lot of them would go for a premium. In all of Toronto we only have 1 single dealer that sells them! Now sure the city does not have nearly as many wealthy people as New York (other big US cities) and many others but that is incredible and can only imagine how tough it would be to get certain models there.

Production numbers do not normally bother me because like stated above, considering the human population and the fact watch lovers are the minority it is not bad. I know MANY people who could buy literally any watch they wanted to at this very moment but shockingly have no interest in expensive watches, cars, clothes etc etc. Just let their hundreds of thousands / even millions sit and waste life but different strokes for different folks I guess, more watches for us

Well said. And when you end up stepping up to the big leagues, as you say, I hope you get exactly what you want!

[TheDude]

I recently saw a magazine ad for Patek, and something caught my attention.

Patek claims it will repair any watch it has ever made - no exceptions. That's a great benefit IMO. I wish Rolex would do that and not cut off access to RSC repairs after a watch reaches a certain age.

[drtooth73]

Like:
1. Resale value.
2. Complications.
3. Slogan

dont like:
1. Size.

[boa2]

Originally Posted by TheDude

I recently saw a magazine ad for Patek, and something caught my attention.

Patek claims it will repair any watch it has ever made - no exceptions. That's a great benefit IMO. I wish Rolex would do that and not cut off access to RSC repairs after a watch reaches a certain age.

You do realize that repairing a vintage Patek takes on average 2-3 years? I too think it's great that they do it, but I really doubt an owner of a vintage Rolex watch would wait that long.

[allanofcalifornia]

Originally Posted by boa2

You do realize that repairing a vintage Patek takes on average 2-3 years? I too think it's great that they do it, but I really doubt an owner of a vintage Rolex watch would wait that long.

You have to be kidding!! 2 to 3 years to repair a watch!! Do they have to make the parts by hand? Oh my goodness!! That is unbelievable! What is the longest anyone had to wait to get their watch repaired??


Allan

[boa2]

Originally Posted by allanofcalifornia

You have to be kidding!! 2 to 3 years to repair a watch!! Do they have to make the parts by hand? Oh my goodness!! That is unbelievable! What is the longest anyone had to wait to get their watch repaired??


Allan

A vintage Patek, yes. It's not that long to service the more recent models.

[AWATCH]

Originally Posted by boa2

You do realize that repairing a vintage Patek takes on average 2-3 years? I too think it's great that they do it, but I really doubt an owner of a vintage Rolex watch would wait that long.

My daughter works at a multi line AD. They use to carry Patek and dropped the line because of such poor service. Customers do not blame the manufacturer they blame the retailer even though the retailer had no control of the situation.

[allanofcalifornia]

Originally Posted by boa2

A vintage Patek, yes. It's not that long to service the more recent models.

Why? Why does it take that long? I mean, seriously, 2 to 3 years!!


Allan

[RW16610]

Well keep in mind they fix anything, regardless to age or type. Service network is VERY much limited as stayed above. Companies like Patek Phillipe employ far less people than more common brands. This to me is one of the advantages to buying a high end Rolex or Omega etc etc. Sure they stop fixing certain watches after like 20 ish years or so but until then you atleast have more options if you wish to send it back to them. They have none of those parts in stock so have to have them hand made. With a Patek Philippe Geneva watchmaker on the clock the repair bill for those odd few cases would be scary I think lol. Watches sent from world wide all into Geneva, most of that 2 - 3 years must be spent in a line waiting to get serviced... Love how they will repair anything but again, that luxury comes at a cost. Rather send my normal "vintage" watches to good, private watch makers who can do it and guarntee a MUCH faster turnaround time.

[boa2]

Originally Posted by RW16610

Well keep in mind they fix anything, regardless to age or type. Service network is VERY much limited as stayed above. Companies like Patek Phillipe employ far less people than more common brands. This to me is one of the advantages to buying a high end Rolex or Omega etc etc. Sure they stop fixing certain watches after like 20 ish years or so but until then you atleast have more options if you wish to send it back to them. They have none of those parts in stock so have to have them hand made. With a Patek Philippe Geneva watchmaker on the clock the repair bill for those odd few cases would be scary I think lol. Watches sent from world wide all into Geneva, most of that 2 - 3 years must be spent in a line waiting to get serviced... Love how they will repair anything but again, that luxury comes at a cost. Rather send my normal "vintage" watches to good, private watch makers who can do it and guarntee a MUCH faster turnaround time.

I suspect you're right, in that the watches are waiting in a queue to be serviced. And there are very few people who are capable of doing it. When you are talking about a 40-yr-old perpetual, for example, there aren't many people who service them, let alone restore them.

I know people with modern Patek watches, and outside of the occasional 7 or 8-month anomaly, most don't seem to be without them for that long when serviced.

[rook]

Originally Posted by allanofcalifornia

Why? Why does it take that long? I mean, seriously, 2 to 3 years!!


Allan

I heard that Patek will fix any watch they ever made....even if it requires custom machining of a part that they no longer have.

[RW16610]

Originally Posted by boa2

I suspect you're right, in that the watches are waiting in a queue to be serviced. And there are very few people who are capable of doing it. When you are talking about a 40-yr-old perpetual, for example, there aren't many people who service them, let alone restore them.

I know people with modern Patek watches, and outside of the occasional 7 or 8-month anomaly, most don't seem to be without them for that long when serviced.

Yeah, some even older. Not sure when the first ones are from (mid - late 1800's? No time to Wiki it now ). Let's say for example a 1901 pocket watch, with complications... Now THAT will most likely take sweet time and be a hefty bill. Only a select few watch makers can work on it I would assume too let alone restore it just as you mentioned above and again, Patek makes like 40,000 - 50,000 watches a year (half Mechanical, half Quartz, some womens some mens etc). Although they are limited, due to the fact all are going into Geneva they must be so backlogged. Not to mention the special care, attention, research etc required when working on something that is 100+ years old etc.

Who knows though, the prices might not be as bad as some of us are thinking but they have to be steep. On their site it shows the maximum service amoutns (per movement categry) in CHF including VAT and it is not so bad considering they are all Grail watches. That being said is my ONLY drawback to a brand like this. More common brands of course have more of a service network to back those numbers, and it might not matter to some but the day your watch fails on warranty (possible for any man made, mechanical item) and you have to wait several motnhs to get it back from Switzerland you might be pretty upset. Atleast me, i'm one of those people who wants my stuff yesterday. Feel so odd having one of my watches off for service even when it is 3 - 4 weeks, can you imagine several months or 2 - 3 years? LOL By the time you get it you might not even remember buying that watch ever...

[C. Davidson]

Thanks to David, RW16610, Brandon, Howard, The Dude, Bill, Allan, Al and Rook for all your replies.

Doesn't Jedi have a Patek?

[allanofcalifornia]

Are you thinking of buying one?


Allan

[C. Davidson]

Originally Posted by allanofcalifornia

Are you thinking of buying one?


Allan

Not in the near future, I like to do my research well in advance. What am I missing? Oh yeah, the money part!

[allanofcalifornia]

Originally Posted by C. Davidson

Not in the near future, I like to do my research well in advance. What am I missing? Oh yeah, the money part!

Is there one you like?

The reason I asked is that I am thinking of buying one but the nicer ones cost way too much money. There just seems to be so many looking so alike. I just started my research.


Allan

[C. Davidson]

Originally Posted by allanofcalifornia

Is there one you like?

The reason I asked is that I am thinking of buying one but the nicer ones cost way too much money. There just seems to be so many looking so alike. I just started my research.


Allan

I really like the World Time Watch (5131 J) and the Annual Calendar (5396 R).
Both are incredibly beautiful. The attached pictures are not my own.

[allanofcalifornia]

Originally Posted by C. Davidson

I really like the World Time Watch (5131 J) and the Annual Calendar (5396 R).
Both are incredibly beautiful. The attached pictures are not my own.

I like the more complicated pieces but they cost so much money!!


Allan

[boa2]

Originally Posted by C. Davidson

Thanks to David, RW16610, Brandon, Howard, The Dude, Bill, Allan, Al and Rook for all your replies.

Doesn't Jedi have a Patek?

He has a 5296g with the sector dial. One of my favorite Pateks, for sure.

[RW16610]

Nice watches!

One of my FAVOURITE Patek's is the Nautilus 40mm in 18K Gold, even love the one wiht the diamond bezel and center links. Not too many stones, just the right size, perfect cut etc etc and looks fit for Royalty indeed.

Their complication watches are truly special, love those too. Just I see the Nautilus as a more pratical daily wear watch for my personal wants / needs the fact it has a metal bracelet and is a fairly simple movement.

[ocwatching]

IMHO...when you pick up a Patek you can feel and see the attention to detail. The way the rotors move..the sound..the finish on the case, the band, the movement...all in a tightly designed package

Rolex are substantial watches and at 36-42mm they have a good weight and balance..however, my small 5120 (37mm) feels almost as substantial when I pick it up..granted its WG...

I wanted some diversity in my collection and wanted a "dress" watch..hence the 5120...I do drool over the complications..but that's another time...

I have looked at the Nautilus line..the complicated watches are a thing of beauty...

in the last few years..Langes have really mounted an attack on the Pateks..and rightly so..their watches are beautiful...that's on my list as well

good luck in your hunt..

3 pix from my simple Calatrava 5120

[RW16610]

OH MY GOODNESS! That second picture of the caseback is WOW Great points you made there, also