Porsche just another BMW Audi Mercedes Volvo, now.

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by SDGT3

This one is for Chewy as it’s exclusive enough

Meet the Ferrari KC23, the encapsulation of a vision that goes beyond limits.
Designed for non-competitive track use, it showcases ground-breaking aerodynamics, motorised vents, and an imposing rear wing.
This #FerrariOneOff unique model, based on the triumphant Ferrari 488 GT3 Evo 2020, can be configured for two uses; this reveals its elegance and formal purity on the one hand, and its signature Ferrari sporty racing character on the other.
The design philosophy integrates glass surfaces seamlessly with the bodywork, enhancing the aesthetic appeal and creating a clearly aeronautics-derived dome effect.
With its monolithic beauty and captivating Gold Mercury livery, the #FerrariKC23 is a one-of-a-kind masterpiece that embodies the essence of exclusivity.
#Ferrari

Nice corvette

[Chewbacca]

Originally Posted by SDGT3

This one is for Chewy as it’s exclusive enough

Meet the Ferrari KC23, the encapsulation of a vision that goes beyond limits.
Designed for non-competitive track use, it showcases ground-breaking aerodynamics, motorised vents, and an imposing rear wing.
This #FerrariOneOff unique model, based on the triumphant Ferrari 488 GT3 Evo 2020, can be configured for two uses; this reveals its elegance and formal purity on the one hand, and its signature Ferrari sporty racing character on the other.
The design philosophy integrates glass surfaces seamlessly with the bodywork, enhancing the aesthetic appeal and creating a clearly aeronautics-derived dome effect.
With its monolithic beauty and captivating Gold Mercury livery, the #FerrariKC23 is a one-of-a-kind masterpiece that embodies the essence of exclusivity.
#Ferrari

It’s OK I guess.

[Andad]

Originally Posted by SDGT3

This one is for Chewy as it’s exclusive enough

Meet the Ferrari KC23, the encapsulation of a vision that goes beyond limits.
Designed for non-competitive track use, it showcases ground-breaking aerodynamics, motorised vents, and an imposing rear wing.
This #FerrariOneOff unique model, based on the triumphant Ferrari 488 GT3 Evo 2020, can be configured for two uses; this reveals its elegance and formal purity on the one hand, and its signature Ferrari sporty racing character on the other.
The design philosophy integrates glass surfaces seamlessly with the bodywork, enhancing the aesthetic appeal and creating a clearly aeronautics-derived dome effect.
With its monolithic beauty and captivating Gold Mercury livery, the #FerrariKC23 is a one-of-a-kind masterpiece that embodies the essence of exclusivity.
#Ferrari

I would love to read through the owners manual.

[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by Andad

I would love to read through the owners manual.

Have Italian car repair manuals gotten any better?

Back in the 1980s the Porsche procedures for service and repair were precise and accurate, whereas Ferrari's were more, well, you know, somewhat a bit vague, with a tiny blurry photo (if you were lucky!).

[ButtButt]

I just ordered a GT3 and I don't think it would bother me if every other car on the road was a Porsche. All I care about is the way it looks and the way it drives/feels/the noises it makes. It's the car I've always wanted and I finally made the dream come true. While people had Ferrari/Lambo posters on their walls growing up, I had 911s.

It's going to be my first Porsche and I'm planning to daily drive it everywhere. I can't wait.

[superdog]

Originally Posted by ButtButt

I just ordered a GT3 and I don't think it would not bother me if every other car on the road was a Porsche. All I care about is the way it looks and the way it drives/feels/the noises it makes. It's the car I've always wanted and I finally made the dream come true. While people had Ferraris/Lambo posters on their walls growing up, I had 911s.

It going to be my first Porsche and I'm planning to daily drive it everywhere. I can't wait.

it is funny you say that. and of course, I agree. but I remember as a kid my buddy had a poster on his wall that said "justification for a higher education".

in the garage was a Lambo and Ferrari and a Porsche.

There has always been Porsche appreciation. 911's are an iconic car. they are just a sports car, not an exotic car.

but imho, they are the best sports car ever. for looks and performance. I do not have a 911 right now. but I do have a Cayenne Turbo GT. sadly, I will not have a 911 for some time, as I am not taking my turbo s. allocation.

but they will always be my favorite. and I will absolutely get another one someday. likely sooner than later.

[ButtButt]

Originally Posted by superdog

it is funny you say that. and of course, I agree. but I remember as a kid my buddy had a poster on his wall that said "justification for a higher education".

in the garage was a Lambo and Ferrari and a Porsche.

There has always been Porsche appreciation. 911's are an iconic car. they are just a sports car, not an exotic car.

but imho, they are the best sports car ever. for looks and performance. I do not have a 911 right now. but I do have a Cayenne Turbo GT. sadly, I will not have a 911 for some time, as I am not taking my turbo s. allocation.

but they will always be my favorite. and I will absolutely get another one someday. likely sooner than later.

There is just something about that shape/body style that does it for me. It's so nice to look at from every angle (especially that wide rear end) and never gets old. While I like a lot of other cars, there are some generations I hate and some I love. When it comes to 911s I love them all.

[superdog]

Originally Posted by ButtButt

There is just something about that shape/body style that does it for me. It's so nice to look at from every angle (especially that wide rear end) and never gets old. While I like a lot of other cars, there are some generations I hate and some I love. When it comes to 911s I love them all.

yep. every one.

[PT_91]

Originally Posted by ButtButt

I just ordered a GT3 and I don't think it would bother me if every other car on the road was a Porsche. All I care about is the way it looks and the way it drives/feels/the noises it makes. It's the car I've always wanted and I finally made the dream come true. While people had Ferrari/Lambo posters on their walls growing up, I had 911s.

It's going to be my first Porsche and I'm planning to daily drive it everywhere. I can't wait.

Sounds awesome! Might share a little bit more reg. the configuration? Hope you won't have to wait too long!

[shedlock2000]

The classics are top banana, but the more modern ones have lost the love somehow. I get that they’re better cars, but they stopped being special.

I’d buy an Aston Martin instead of any on your list, given the (only moderate) price differential — hell, id sooner by a slightly loved Aston for the same price as a new 911; at least it’d be pretty.


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[superdog]

Originally Posted by shedlock2000

The classics are top banana, but the more modern ones have lost the love somehow. I get that they’re better cars, but they stopped being special.

I’d buy an Aston Martin instead of any on your list, given the (only moderate) price differential — hell, id sooner by a slightly loved Aston for the same price as a new 911; at least it’d be pretty.


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A slightly loved Aston would be half the price. They tank in value.

It’s interesting though, and I’m an Aston lover too.

But it’s interesting because Aston had certainly remained more exclusive through manufacturing less cars. That’s for sure. But they tank in value because most folks simply don’t want them. I’d guess it’s because the performance isn’t even comparable to a 911.

You could buy a very nice V8 Vantage for just over 100k. Ive thought about it many times. And I’ll likely get one someday. But really your just getting an AMG anyway.

Had a DBS once. A beautiful car. But I just didn’t love it.

[shedlock2000]

Originally Posted by superdog

A slightly loved Aston would be half the price. They tank in value.

It’s interesting though, and I’m an Aston lover too.

But it’s interesting because Aston had certainly remained more exclusive through manufacturing less cars. That’s for sure. But they tank in value because most folks simply don’t want them. I’d guess it’s because the performance isn’t even comparable to a 911.

You could buy a very nice V8 Vantage for just over 100k. Ive thought about it many times. And I’ll likely get one someday. But really your just getting an AMG anyway.

Had a DBS once. A beautiful car. But I just didn’t love it.

I owned a V8 vantage back in the late ‘90s (it was interesting to see it rolled out again in the recent bond movie). It wasn’t particularly nice on the outside and quite dated on the inside — and, as you say, not terribly special in terms of performance either.

However, I’d sooner have one of those than a 911 or AMG; there’s something remarkable about them, they still have a soul that these later things are missing (and that ‘70s and ‘80s Porsches had).

I’m surprised to hear about your experience with the DBS — what didn’t you love? I felt the same way about my Vette.


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[superdog]

Originally Posted by shedlock2000

I owned a V8 vantage back in the late ‘90s (it was interesting to see it rolled out again in the recent bond movie). It wasn’t particularly nice on the outside and quite dated on the inside — and, as you say, not terribly special in terms of performance either.

However, I’d sooner have one of those than a 911 or AMG; there’s something remarkable about them, they still have a soul that these later things are missing (and that ‘70s and ‘80s Porsches had).

I’m surprised to hear about your experience with the DBS — what didn’t you love? I felt the same way about my Vette.


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hard to compare Aston and Porsche. One is known for great engineering. The other is not.

I cannot speak to how anyone feels a car has a soul. A buddy with a GT3RS (yes tracks it like crazy) told me I would hate the Turbo S. It was too perfect, and had no soul.

To date, the Turbo S is my favorite car. I do very much enjoy the sound of an NA engine though. I think ideally, a good sound with all the bells and whistles is perfect.

I think I would love a 992 GT3, but they do not come with surround view or lane change assist. While you dont need that for the track, and I would track it, it would spend most of its life on regular roads, and I like that stuff.

I love my R8, but it has none of that. So maybe I would be fine. In Porsche, I think it is more important that a more exotic style of car.

Anyway, I just found the DBS disappointing. It was just blah in every way. The interior, the V12, the performance. It did nothing for me. For the price, it should be special. It was not. Although, the lines were very pretty.

The newer Vantage I think looks super. But again, an AMG engine, so might just make more sense to get an AMG. But I really do like them, and they can be had at a steal. I will likely get one someday. But not anytime too soon.

[shedlock2000]

Originally Posted by superdog

hard to compare Aston and Porsche. One is known for great engineering. The other is not.

I cannot speak to how anyone feels a car has a soul. A buddy with a GT3RS (yes tracks it like crazy) told me I would hate the Turbo S. It was too perfect, and had no soul.

To date, the Turbo S is my favorite car. I do very much enjoy the sound of an NA engine though. I think ideally, a good sound with all the bells and whistles is perfect.

I think I would love a 992 GT3, but they do not come with surround view or lane change assist. While you dont need that for the track, and I would track it, it would spend most of its life on regular roads, and I like that stuff.

I love my R8, but it has none of that. So maybe I would be fine. In Porsche, I think it is more important that a more exotic style of car.

Anyway, I just found the DBS disappointing. It was just blah in every way. The interior, the V12, the performance. It did nothing for me. For the price, it should be special. It was not. Although, the lines were very pretty.

The newer Vantage I think looks super. But again, an AMG engine, so might just make more sense to get an AMG. But I really do like them, and they can be had at a steal. I will likely get one someday. But not anytime too soon.

I think it’s interesting how people bond with different vehicles — I’ve never liked Japanese vehicles, for instance. I find older Porsches to be quite characterful but new ones to be a bit sterile. I get the same feeling from Audi (though they’re far less than reliable).

I’m with you on the tech too, these things spend most of their life on suburban streets and highways, so the toys are handy.

I must admit, the interior in my ‘80s vantage was a bit beige (but of it’s time, I suppose). I’d definitely have an old 911, but if I wanted a newer vehicle of that ilk, it’d probably be an Aston (despite the reliability issues )


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[BraveBold]

Modern Astons (up to at least 2010) just lacked the driving dynamics you get in a 911.

I think some of the newer models may have improved somewhat … but not comparable cars up to 2010 - and the market pricing speaks to that.

[Moondoggy]

I like my Citroen 2CV. Any fans.

[Chiboy]

I've never owned an Aston, but a friend had one. I think it needed a $5,000 clutch before the odometer hit five digits. He certainly knows how to drive a manual car, but perhaps the first owner didn't. Anyway, one difference in the ownership experience between Astons and 911s is that one gets really, really expensive to maintain and one is pretty bulletproof. I imagine that impacts resale value, just the way it seems to for Maserati's.

Not trying to talk anyone into or out of any car. Just my opinion.

[enjoythemusic]

Great points Steve!

Imho vintage cars have a mechanical 'purity' of feel and handling (and sound) today's xBox-on-wheels may lack. The engagement of the clutch, the feel of the gears through the gated shifter, muscling the steering wheel at slow speeds.... and the faint scent of oil and well-worn leather....

[superdog]

that is the beautiful part of so much variety out there. different folks for different strokes...or you know what I mean...

no right or wrong answer. similar to taste in watches.

even so, I cannot put my finger on it exactly, but it feels like an old joke. they just dont make em like they used to anymore type thing...

which is so very true. I was recently in a building in Salt Lake City. The architecture was so sick. The railing on the stairway was so incredible ornate and well done.

they just dont make em like that anymore. anyway. a fun discussion. still no desire for vintage. I want an air cooled 911, but only because I love all things 911.

[Gary Busey]

Why I went for an alfa QV. No one has it.


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[Dirt]

Originally Posted by Gary Busey

Why I went for an alfa QV. No one has it.


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Nice
I was looking at one myself for a while and was going to sell my Maserati to move into it but the Maserati is rather special with a fully customised interior right down to the stitching.
It does everything right for what we want it for even if it's just sitting in the garage to perv on and gently wipe the dust off.
Oh and my wife beat me around the head quite a lot for suggesting it, so it's staying in the stable.

To get back on topic, IMO the Porsches are pretty run of the mill now days as they're just another one like all the others out of Germany and like a lot of things in that realm, they're all good while they're in warranty.

What i can say is that at our age, we are moving in a very different direction, especially since we bought a top of the range Subaru Outback(non turbo) recently and both of us are gravitating toward it instinctively nearly every time.
It's a really nice ride and fine in traffic and on the highway.
We're racking up the ks on it fast and we have our eyes on its replacement for when it's comes up to the 4 year mark and the ks are getting up there with a bit of warranty left on it.
The replacement will be another one just like it, but in a different colour paint and interior as it ticks all the boxes with it being made in Japan and the dealer and service department are well cultivated by us now, with the service department only a 10 minute walk down the road and the dealer about 8 minutes drive away.
Oh, and the dogs like it a lot as well. Lol.
Anyway that's where we are puting our money as we get older as one must be able to enjoy it with good value for money in these challenging times

[Spartacus]

I am a former BMW M guy and now a Porsche guy, have two and could not be happier.

While I do dream about owning a Ferrari or Lamborghini, I can not afford to drive them the way I drive my Porsches. Carefree and hard, my Turbo S for example seems to enjoy being pushed, the harder I push it the more it wants to go.

Anyway, as an enthusiasts I strongly recommend supporting Porsche as a brand. Porsche continues to offer manual cars, expand driver experiences and centers, build motorsports cars, not just daily drivers.

[Chewbacca]

Originally Posted by Spartacus

I am a former BMW M guy and now a Porsche guy, have two and could not be happier.

While I do dream about owning a Ferrari or Lamborghini, I can not afford to drive them the way I drive my Porsches. Carefree and hard, my Turbo S for example seems to enjoy being pushed, the harder I push it the more it wants to go.

Anyway, as an enthusiasts I strongly recommend supporting Porsche as a brand. Porsche continues to offer manual cars, expand driver experiences and centers, build motorsports cars, not just daily drivers.

What?

If you’re looking to support Porsche because you think they’re keeping manuals because they’re nice or true enthusiast cars you’re wrong. Risk of Losing business is why they’re doing it and giving market share to others to pounce or the classic restomods like Singer and upstarts was happening. And their driving days are for making money, keeping their clients alive with their products and to sell their next one. This is the same owners group that’s killing the manual VW Gti next year. Imagine a world without a manual GTI.

Instead, support local track days with manual econoboxes to cultivate future manual drivers and enthusiasts so when they get to that level they’ll demand it.

There’s no emotion or orthodoxy or being nice with Porsche. Just ask their 4cyl boxter and full EV Macan ‘plans’ which are now shelved. It’s money. It’s business.

[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by chewbacca

imagine a world without a manual gti.

408c400833de0890ab96cccc1e03c916.jpeg

[sambb]

hsving owned many german marques and exotics, i will say that although there is fun in the twists or the track, i find it far better to drive with the top down at 35-45 mph on a nice sunny day with a loved one