Porsche just another BMW Audi Mercedes Volvo, now.

[rick lee]

The last Pcar I had was a '96 993 C2 and I never had any interest in anything after the air cooled era. I've been to the factory and museum a few times since they started making the 997s and it's always a cool pilgrimage. But anything newer than the last 993, which Jerry Seinfeld bought, just doesn't grab me.

[superdog]

Originally Posted by enjoythemusic

Many known defects and very high depreciation aside, the Bentley GTC was indeed a fun car. Especially in the snow with Blizzak tires, as this was the most fun DRIVING her.

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BMW HELP: Since we have many excellent and influential drivers and automotive personalities here on TRF, can any of you kindly help BMW engineer proper steering feel into their automotive products? Many thanks.

Yeah. Apparently the newer ones are better in terms of defects. But I had a few quirks. Reviews are incredible. But resale still sucks.

I sold mine two weeks ago. It was a fluke. Some dude fell in love with it. Offered me way more than it was worth. And I still lost a bundle compared to what I paid.

But I have two other cars en route. So I decided to take the opportunity. I don’t miss it yet. But I’m confident I will.

I really love the continental lineup. I bet in convertible I’d have liked it even more.

[Blansky]

Around where I live all these cars are as common as blue skies. If you're buying to impress, I doubt it'll work and if you're buying for performance, you'll probably never get it over 50 MPH.

I guess just buy what you enjoy driving and forget the other stuff.

[Chiboy]

I guess this really isn’t on point. But I COMPLETELY don’t get the allure of a Bentley, especially for “car people.” We spend half the year in Naples, where they are everywhere. And I really have never spent the time to read about them, so I’m not burdened with a lot of knowledge. But I know anecdotally that they depreciate like few other vehicles, seem to have many maintenance issues, and are heavy as hell. How can a vehicle like that be “fun?” I’m sure they’d be great to be chauffeured around in, especially in a city. But why do people who enjoy driving lust after them?

[Chewbacca]

Originally Posted by Chiboy

I guess this really isn’t on point. But I COMPLETELY don’t get the allure of a Bentley, especially for “car people.” We spend half the year in Naples, where they are everywhere. And I really have never spent the time to read about them, so I’m not burdened with a lot of knowledge. But I know anecdotally that they depreciate like few other vehicles, seem to have many maintenance issues, and are heavy as hell. How can a vehicle like that be “fun?” I’m sure they’d be great to be chauffeured around in, especially in a city. But why do people who enjoy driving lust after them?

As a gentleman’s grand tourer or stately ‘sportier’ gentleman’s car, they’re wonderful.

If you want to do the twisties, one usually has a Jag or Aston around.

[Chiboy]

Originally Posted by Chewbacca

As a gentleman’s grand tourer or stately ‘sportier’ gentleman’s car, they’re wonderful.

If you want to do the twisties, one usually has a Jag or Aston around.

I completely understand the appeal of an Aston Martin, or even some Jags. I can see some of the mid to upper level execs you employ enjoying them!

[Moondoggy]

Originally Posted by Chiboy

I guess this really isn’t on point. But I COMPLETELY don’t get the allure of a Bentley, especially for “car people.” We spend half the year in Naples, where they are everywhere. And I really have never spent the time to read about them, so I’m not burdened with a lot of knowledge. But I know anecdotally that they depreciate like few other vehicles, seem to have many maintenance issues, and are heavy as hell. How can a vehicle like that be “fun?” I’m sure they’d be great to be chauffeured around in, especially in a city. But why do people who enjoy driving lust after them?

All those points you made is what makes the allure of owning a Bentley, to the owner “who cares, I want a Bentley not one of those common Rolls”.

[crew]

Originally Posted by Chiboy

I guess this really isn’t on point. But I COMPLETELY don’t get the allure of a Bentley, especially for “car people.” We spend half the year in Naples, where they are everywhere. And I really have never spent the time to read about them, so I’m not burdened with a lot of knowledge. But I know anecdotally that they depreciate like few other vehicles, seem to have many maintenance issues, and are heavy as hell. How can a vehicle like that be “fun?” I’m sure they’d be great to be chauffeured around in, especially in a city. But why do people who enjoy driving lust after them?

I can definitely confirm Bentleys are everywhere in Naples. The Continental convertible seems to be the car there.
After Ian went through Naples/Ft Myers last September many cars were lost or destroyed (including mine). A man I know has a son that sells at a high end dealership that includes Bentley. The son sold 8 Bentleys (to replace Bentleys destroyed) on the first Saturday after Ian.

[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by superdog

I really love the continental lineup. I bet in convertible I’d have liked it even more.

Have had the GT and GTC. Yes, sometimes a drop top is exactly what the doctor ordered. Just remember, you also added another $17k of bits and parts that move and use a motor and fabric exposed to the elements, etc... as Bentley does it.

[Moondoggy]

Aston Martin are the thinking mans sports car, Porsche are purely the "I know nothing bitcoinb*tch mobile".

Tongue in cheek a little, but not much though.

[Chewbacca]

Originally Posted by Moondoggy

Aston Martin are the thinking mans sports car, Porsche are purely the "I know nothing bitcoinb*tch mobile".

Tongue in cheek a little, but not much though.

.

[Moondoggy]

Originally Posted by Chewbacca

.

[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by Moondoggy

Aston Martin are the thinking mans sports car, Porsche are purely the "I know nothing bitcoinb*tch mobile".

Tongue in cheek a little, but not much though.

Corvette guys have their thing, as do the whole Ford Truck versus Chevy/GMC. My fave group of 'car guys' to hang out with are the vintage racers AND their mechanics. The mechanics are really awesome!

[Dino944]

I think whether a Porsche seems special may depend on how you define it. ...rarity, performance, looks, quality, some combination of those?

I grew up around Porsches. My parents had a 944, 928s, 911 Carrera 3.2 and a 930 Turbo. Back then even the most basic 911s felt hand made, special, drove like nothing else, had better build quality than anything from Italy or England, and you could daily drive them...although the AC was worthless in the summer. It was also a much rarer sight to see Porsches on the road (unless you were in FL, CA, maybe NY). I might see 2 or 3 a week on average, and maybe a few more on a week that I went to a big city. Back then I might see 2 Lambos a year, maybe 6-10 Ferraris a year, maybe 3-4 Lotus Esprits, and maybe 1 Aston every few years. These days, I see cars from most of these brands through out the week and I see several Porsches every day.

Production numbers from all brands are substantially higher than they used to be. So unless you buy a limited edition of some sort, nothing is really that exclusive.

I'm a big fan of 911s (although I wish they were a little smaller), Boxsters and Caymans as I think they are probably the best built, most useable sports cars on the market.


As for Aston Martin, nice looking, but the driving experience and build quality, are a far cry from Porsche. Aston may be more exotic, and turn more heads, but the driving experience was a disappointment compared to Porsches I've driven or owned. Although, I'm not a big fan of PDK, its so much smarter much better than the automatics in Astons. The Aston constantly hesitated trying to figure out which gear it should be in...it just reinforced for me that even if Porsches aren't as exclusive as Aston...its just an all around better car.

[Chewbacca]

I find the 718 is the spiritual successor to the 911. The 911 died about 10-15 years ago. It’s fast but also a bloated GT car more than a nimble snug sports car that wants to kill you.

And a Macan is a Porsche. So whether one feels the ‘specialness’ is still in the 911 and ‘Edition’ models, we’re talking about brand here. Not just 911. The 911 made and was the face of Porsche when it was Porsche.

Ask anyone who knows these cars and not just owns one and you’ll know.

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by Chewbacca

I find the 718 is the spiritual successor to the 911. The 911 died about 10-15 years ago. It’s fast but also a bloated GT car more than a nimble snug sports car that wants to kill you.

And a Macan is a Porsche. So whether one feels the ‘specialness’ is still in the 911 and ‘Edition’ models, we’re talking about brand here. Not just 911. The 911 made and was the face of Porsche when it was Porsche.

Ask anyone who knows these cars and not just owns one and you’ll know.

Do you have any Porsches currently? Which have you owned in the last 20 years?

[Chewbacca]

Originally Posted by GB-man

Do you have any Porsches currently? Which have you owned in the last 20 years?

Not currently. Too common. I own other things.

Let’s just say I’ve driven almost every new Porsche since 1998 but never technically owned one in my own name. Never had to.

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by Chewbacca

Not currently. Too common. I own other things.

Let’s just say I’ve driven almost every new Porsche since 1998 but never technically owned one in my own name. Never had to.

So you’re a car and driver editor then?

[superdog]

Originally Posted by Chewbacca

I find the 718 is the spiritual successor to the 911. The 911 died about 10-15 years ago. It’s fast but also a bloated GT car more than a nimble snug sports car that wants to kill you.

And a Macan is a Porsche. So whether one feels the ‘specialness’ is still in the 911 and ‘Edition’ models, we’re talking about brand here. Not just 911. The 911 made and was the face of Porsche when it was Porsche.

Ask anyone who knows these cars and not just owns one and you’ll know.

While I appreciate your comment, I cannot disagree more. Out of any Supercar Ive driven, the 911 is by far the best balanced, and most planted. And the 911 is a Supercar for more regular people. Which of course, I get why you dislike it so much. The poors can attain them.

In regard to it not being a nimble sports car…A lot of top tier drivers actually say the 911 is boring because it just too good. The car actually makes the driver better. Which is why I like it so much. I’m a terrible driver. If you’ve ever actually driven one, there is no way you could make that statement.

Especially in comparison to air cooled turbos. Which are nicknamed the widow maker for a reason. You had to be an exceptional driver to keep it under control.

Regarding the brand, yeah I agree. It has lost it status. Hard to disagree with your very pointed statement.

But…I have to ask…if you have such a well thought out and very specific point of view, why the question in the first place? You clearly know the answer.

Oh wait. I forgot who I was taking to.

[Chewbacca]

Originally Posted by GB-man

So you’re a car and driver editor then?

I own the dirt under a premium brands automall and collect rent payments from OEM dealer groups.

I’d be poor if I worked for an obsolete magazine.

[Chewbacca]

Originally Posted by Chewbacca

I own the dirt under a premium brands automall and collect rent payments from OEM dealer groups.

I’d be poor if I worked for an obsolete magazine.

Correction: My lawyer advises that my holdco owns the dirt. I regret the error.

[Chewbacca]

Originally Posted by Chewbacca

Correction: My lawyer advises that my holdco owns the dirt. I regret the error.

Correction Two: My lawyer advises that my holdco owns the dirt. And personal use of such vehicles does not constitute a taxable benefit. My lawyer regrets the error.

[Chewbacca]

Does anyone know a good lawyer?

[Chewbacca]

Originally Posted by superdog

While I appreciate your comment, I cannot disagree more. Out of any Supercar Ive driven, the 911 is by far the best balanced, and most planted. And the 911 is a Supercar for more regular people. Which of course, I get why you dislike it so much. The poors can attain them.

In regard to it not being a nimble sports car…A lot of top tier drivers actually say the 911 is boring because it just too good. The car actually makes the driver better. Which is why I like it so much. I’m a terrible driver. If you’ve ever actually driven one, there is no way you could make that statement.

Especially in comparison to air cooled turbos. Which are nicknamed the widow maker for a reason. You had to be an exceptional driver to keep it under control.

Regarding the brand, yeah I agree. It has lost it status. Hard to disagree with your very pointed statement.

But…I have to ask…if you have such a well thought out and very specific point of view, why the question in the first place? You clearly know the answer.

Oh wait. I forgot who I was taking to.

Proper sporting cars should have flaws and try to kill you. History proves this. I have no desire for modern boulevard fast cars to appease the track day egos of podiatrists or hair stylists with nanny features and ‘too good’ remarks. Give me Sophia Loren throwing a vase at me from across the room over Mrs Cleaver saying meatloaf is ready any day.

[superdog]

Originally Posted by Chewbacca

Correction: My lawyer advises that my holdco owns the dirt. I regret the error.

Originally Posted by Chewbacca

Correction Two: My lawyer advises that my holdco owns the dirt. And personal use of such vehicles does not constitute a taxable benefit. My lawyer regrets the error.

[superdog]

Originally Posted by Chewbacca

Proper sporting cars should have flaws and try to kill you. History proves this. I have no desire for proper racing cars to appease the track day egos of podiatrists or hair stylists.

Hard to argue there. And I really would love an air cooled turbo at some point.

I truly look forward to one day glimpsing what it’s like to have real money.

I just heard of a Chicago billionaire who crashed his hyper car at the track. Sadly he died. His family was watching. He’s apparently a big track guy. It was a family event and he went into the wall.

I’m hearing this second hand, so some of my details might be wrong. I think he was Chicago based. Really sad story. But he was in his 70’s and surely lived a wonderful life.

[Chewbacca]

Originally Posted by superdog

Hard to argue there. And I really would love an air cooled turbo at some point.

I truly look forward to one day glimpsing what it’s like to have real money.

I just heard of a Chicago billionaire who crashed his hyper car at the track. Sadly he died. His family was watching. He’s apparently a big track guy. It was a family event and he went into the wall.

I’m hearing this second hand, so some of my details might be wrong. I think he was Chicago based. Really sad story. But he was in his 70’s and surely lived a wonderful life.

Rip.

These cars are faster than 80s and early 90s F1 cars. No business owing racing one without a FIA license for the class. Overconfidence and lack of respect with the ‘safety features’ also plays a part. Physics and walls don’t care.

[SDGT3]

Chewy is on a roll today, but to his point, my 2001 Honda Odyssey had more horsepower than a Corvette from 10 years prior.

[Moondoggy]

I’ve owned a few Porches and I just felt like a German taxi driver.

[Chiboy]

Originally Posted by SDGT3

Chewy is on a roll today, but to his point, my 2001 Honda Odyssey had more horsepower than a Corvette from 10 years prior.

Is that what they call a “humble brag?”