How Can I put this Nicely...?

[LuminousMaximus]

Please Stop Complaining about the, "Greys...!"

They provide a great service, take a Lot of Risk, have lots of $$ tied up in inventory, and take in many many watches in trade that most Of us are just happy to get rid of...

Even then, they have to clean up the watch, Market and advertise, and get it sold with lots of competition.

We didn't complain when we were buying most Rolex for 1/2 the cost of ROLEX Prices...

The Market is the Market, and People with Deep Pockets drive up the price... Not the Greys...

[Dirt]

Precisely
Or is it deeper pockets than the whingers?

[teck21]

People just want someone or something to blame when they’re frustrated.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[MasterBlaster]

Greys are an easy target. No one likes middlemen. They ruin lots of hobbies. I recall the guys who used bots to buy up all the playstation 5 consoles during the holidays posting photos with garages full of hundreds of sealed units that they were selling online for triple retail price. Meanwhile a thousands of kids don't get to enjoy their new game on Christmas morning. Hard to root for guys like that.

[doboy007]

This probably belongs in open forum section since not Rolex specific. Most that look at them favorably probably have done deals back in the day when they were able to get a discount on a Rolex (maybe even now on a non-Rolex watch). They serve a purpose for sure but they do look like vultures when it’s a huge seller’s market.

[teck21]

Originally Posted by MasterBlaster

Greys are an easy target. No one likes middlemen. They ruin lots of hobbies. I recall the guys who used bots to buy up all the playstation 5 consoles during the holidays posting photos with garages full of hundreds of sealed units that they were selling online for triple retail price. Meanwhile a thousands of kids don't get to enjoy their new game on Christmas morning. Hard to root for guys like that.

And some people want an online first come first serve distribution model for Rolex!

There is a difference though in that the greys for Rolex watches, as OP has pointed out are merely enabling transactions between buyers and sellers of watches.

In your example, they are are buying directly from source and reselling them for profit, and not adding any value.

Greys actually perform a value added service.


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[Andad]

I have only bought from grey dealers for less than retail.

If I want to pay retail would I not buy from a retailer?

[Brew]

It’s not easy being grey.


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[Harry-57]

This grey market alternative reality mentality is driven by the lack of AD availability of a tiny number of models/brands and gets amplified here because Rolex is one of them. I've saved more money in the grey market than I've overpaid for a couple of hot Rolex watches before they became super hot (does that make me a speculator? In my defence I was buying them out of love, not to sell on or put in the safe). But why step back and look at the big picture when you can angrily focus on a pin head (rhetorical question)?

It's YouTwitFace behaviour. It cheapens and infantilises the forum. But it can't be taboo, because it does have a bearing on our hobby/obsession. To ignore it would put TRF into it's own alternative reality. And idiotic manifestations of freedom of speech, within the bounds of legality and decency, are infinitely preferable to censorship, if sometimes infinitely irritating.

There is an unambiguous AUP and I'm sure the mods are kept busy clearing out rubbish that we never see. It can difficult to ignore. Some of the claims beg for ridicule. A lot of it is trolling. But if the vast majority of these threads could be ignored, the attention seekers would go away. Then we would be left with a tendency to insert the moaning into any thread that it could possible be squeezed into.

But that's people for you. Gotta smile.

[Andad]

Originally Posted by Harry-57

This grey market alternative reality mentality is driven by the lack of AD availability of a tiny number of models/brands and gets amplified here because Rolex is one of them. I've saved more money in the grey market than I've overpaid for a couple of hot Rolex watches before they became super hot. But why step back and look at the big picture when you can angrily focus on a pin head (rhetorical question)?

It's YouTwitFace behaviour. It cheapens and infantilises the forum. But it can't be taboo, because it does have a bearing on our hobby/obsession. To ignore it would put TRF into it's own alternative reality. And idiotic manifestations of freedom of speech (within the bounds of legality and decency) is infinitely preferable to censorship.

It's difficult to ignore. Some of the claims beg for ridicule. A lot of it is trolling. But if the vast majority of these threads could be ignored, the attention seekers would go away. Then we would be left with a tendency to insert the moaning into any thread that it could possible be squeezed into.

But that's people for you. Gotta smile.

Are you on the suds again?

[SWS65SM]

Originally Posted by LuminousMaximus

We didn't complain when we were buying most Rolex for 1/2 the cost of ROLEX Prices...

Certainly agree with this part.

The guy supplying weed down the hall in your apartment building is your homie until........ the price doubled.

[Moondoggy]

I am turning grey and I am still less then half price, if anyone is interested.

[superdog]

Lots of annoying thread themes.

Is it safe?
How long will I wait?
My AD has no stock.

Back in the day, it was “how much discount can I get”.

Folks used to go from gray to gray to gray trying to find the best price. They used to torture AD’s too.

Not so much anymore.

[TK-710]

TldProofR

I think the argument that no one complained about the greys when they were getting a discount is invalid. That’s like saying no one complained when the system was working. That is after all by most common definitions what the grey market is: a cheaper alternative to the authorized distribution network. I have no problem with free market or the greys but I think there’s a few big differences between the grey market in its traditional sense an what we have now.

In the past you had two option pay msrp or, perhaps, a small discounted price from an AD and get the all of security that comes from buying an often counterfeit item straight from the authorized distribution network of the manufacturer.

Your other option was to buy at an even larger, perhaps better, discount than you could obtain on your own but outside the security of that authorized network. Hence the “buy the seller motto” that is so famous here.

I think people are upset with the market today because the options seem to be buy grey for over MSRP or perhaps don’t buy at all. So in essence the grey market has become a way to pay more money for a watch outside the authorized network than within. Higher prices and less security is not how the grey market is supposed to work. It’s designed to be an alternative cheaper option, not, in some cases, the only option and in most cases a more expensive option. The trade off is now availability instead of price.

Only in a luxury market among the ridiculously wealthy would a grey market exists where people are paying more than MSRP for technically previously owned watches outside the Manufacture’s authorized distribution network. But not only does it exist but people defend it from rebuke. These are not rare or vintage watches. We’re talking made on a Monday, bought on a Tuesday, flipped on a Wednesday, bought at over MSRP on a Thursday, post pictures and stories on Friday watches.

I think it speaks volumes to the trust and loyalty that the Greys have built over the years that they can even operate under these conditions. Especially when the big ones on this site are the exceptions not the rule when it comes to honesty and customer service. If they were the norm we wouldn’t have the “watch out” section or the “buy the seller” warning. Which implies if you get burnt buying grey it’s not the grey markets fault it’s the buyers fault. Yet this is somehow the market that is favorable over ADS or at least defended.

We’ve all seen the videos of $100,000 watches being sold at what look like indoor flea markets. For those who’ve only ever bought from ADs that’s not a reassuring sight. You think they can view that video and then pay more for any of those watches than from an AD? These are the same people who start threads about not wanting sales people touching their watches or white gloves or Diet Coke.

As far as free market and capitalism and all the other patriotic defenses go I think it’s probably a moot point. When they were buying at $7,000 and selling at $8,000 for a watch that MSRP for $9550 or now buying watches that MSRP for $12,500 for $25,000 and selling for $28,000 they were and still are utilizing the market to their advantage to make a profit. It just used to fit more neatly into people’s view of how the market works. Both capitalism. But capitalism is two sided. Not only do capitalist like to sell high they also like to buy low. Everyone loves capitalism until they’re the one not getting the good deal.

As for the greys and their pricing I say good for them. If there are actually people in this world who can’t wait to have their next wrist watch to the point they will pay thousands more now than they would pay if they waited then absolutely take advantage of that. Price gauge until that market dries up. But I think the big difference is now they’re controlling the market to some degree. And for people who only bought from ADs in the past, who got what they wanted instantly, not being able to buy from them now and seeing the high priced grey alternatives has crushed their sense of importance and entitlement. Their lack of success at the AD has turned to frustration with the greys.

It is after all the people who are waiting that are frustrated. We all get cranky when we have to wait. Think Disney World splash mountain, 98 degree day. You’ve been waiting 2 hours with the hungry kids and the guy who paid for the vip tour just walked straight to the front of the line. Mutter Függer.

Alternatively most people paying over MSRP at the greys seem happy. The even post how happy they are. I suppose there is also the group who pay over MSRP but then swear they’ve never paid over MSRP because they don’t want to come off as financially too rich to care or irresponsible or inpatient or…whatever but when they’re getting into your boat at splash mountain they definitely don’t care how much they paid: they are happy.


But greys are not just living the good life worry free. There’s a huge risk for the greys as well. Sometimes they appear to be entrepreneurial geniuses living the dream life of selling watches. Then you hear stories that they have 20 GMTs and I know I could never live in that world of financial high risk. I think the biggest risk for them now is how much inventory they’ll be holding when the market cools down and no one is buying $8000 watches for $16,000 anymore. . .

Either way the “my relationship with my AD ” and “the greys are not bad ” or “the greys are creating shortages” or “my AD is in league with the greys” threads will always have points and counterpoints. It’s interesting how defensive buying watches can get. It would be more interesting if an AD or a grey ever chimed in but I doubt anyone will ever get to truly see behind the curtain.

[fskywalker]

Originally Posted by Moondoggy

I am turning grey and I am still less then half price, if anyone is interested.

Originally Posted by TK-710

TldProofR

I think the argument that no one complained about the greys when they were getting a discount is invalid. That’s like saying no one complained when the system was working. That is after all by most common definitions what the grey market is: a cheaper alternative to the authorized distribution network. I have no problem with free market or the greys but I think there’s a few big differences between the grey market in its traditional sense an what we have now.

In the past you had two option pay msrp or, perhaps, a small discounted price from an AD and get the all of security that comes from buying an often counterfeit item straight from the authorized distribution network of the manufacturer.

Your other option was to buy at an even larger, perhaps better, discount than you could obtain on your own but outside the security of that authorized network. Hence the “buy the seller motto” that is so famous here.

I think people are upset with the market today because the options seem to be buy grey for over MSRP or perhaps don’t buy at all. So in essence the grey market has become a way to pay more money for a watch outside the authorized network than within. Higher prices and less security is not how the grey market is supposed to work. It’s designed to be an alternative cheaper option, not, in some cases, the only option and in most cases a more expensive option. The trade off is now availability instead of price.

Only in a luxury market among the ridiculously wealthy would a grey market exists where people are paying more than MSRP for technically previously owned watches outside the Manufacture’s authorized distribution network. But not only does it exist but people defend it from rebuke. These are not rare or vintage watches. We’re talking made on a Monday, bought on a Tuesday, flipped on a Wednesday, bought at over MSRP on a Thursday, post pictures and stories on Friday watches.

I think it speaks volumes to the trust and loyalty that the Greys have built over the years that they can even operate under these conditions. Especially when the big ones on this site are the exceptions not the rule when it comes to honesty and customer service. If they were the norm we wouldn’t have the “watch out” section or the “buy the seller” warning. Which implies if you get burnt buying grey it’s not the grey markets fault it’s the buyers fault. Yet this is somehow the market that is favorable over ADS or at least defended.

We’ve all seen the videos of $100,000 watches being sold at what look like indoor flea markets. For those who’ve only ever bought from ADs that’s not a reassuring sight. You think they can view that video and then pay more for any of those watches than from an AD? These are the same people who start threads about not wanting sales people touching their watches or white gloves or Diet Coke.

As far as free market and capitalism and all the other patriotic defenses go I think it’s probably a moot point. When they were buying at $7,000 and selling at $8,000 for a watch that MSRP for $9550 or now buying watches that MSRP for $12,500 for $25,000 and selling for $28,000 they were and still are utilizing the market to their advantage to make a profit. It just used to fit more neatly into people’s view of how the market works. Both capitalism. But capitalism is two sided. Not only do capitalist like to sell high they also like to buy low. Everyone loves capitalism until they’re the one not getting the good deal.

As for the greys and their pricing I say good for them. If there are actually people in this world who can’t wait to have their next wrist watch to the point they will pay thousands more now than they would pay if they waited then absolutely take advantage of that. Price gauge until that market dries up. But I think the big difference is now they’re controlling the market to some degree. And for people who only bought from ADs in the past, who got what they wanted instantly, not being able to buy from them now and seeing the high priced grey alternatives has crushed their sense of importance and entitlement. Their lack of success at the AD has turned to frustration with the greys.

It is after all the people who are waiting that are frustrated. We all get cranky when we have to wait. Think Disney World splash mountain, 98 degree day. You’ve been waiting 2 hours with the hungry kids and the guy who paid for the vip tour just walked straight to the front of the line. Mutter Függer.

Alternatively most people paying over MSRP at the greys seem happy. The even post how happy they are. I suppose there is also the group who pay over MSRP but then swear they’ve never paid over MSRP because they don’t want to come off as financially too rich to care or irresponsible or inpatient or…whatever but when they’re getting into your boat at splash mountain they definitely don’t care how much they paid: they are happy.


But greys are not just living the good life worry free. There’s a huge risk for the greys as well. Sometimes they appear to be entrepreneurial geniuses living the dream life of selling watches. Then you hear stories that they have 20 GMTs and I know I could never live in that world of financial high risk. I think the biggest risk for them now is how much inventory they’ll be holding when the market cools down and no one is buying $8000 watches for $16,000 anymore. . .

Either way the “my relationship with my AD ” and “the greys are not bad ” or “the greys are creating shortages” or “my AD is in league with the greys” threads will always have points and counterpoints. It’s interesting how defensive buying watches can get. It would be more interesting if an AD or a grey ever chimed in but I doubt anyone will ever get to truly see behind the curtain.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[superdog]

Originally Posted by TK-710

TldProofR

I think the argument that no one complained about the greys when they were getting a discount is invalid. That’s like saying no one complained when the system was working. That is after all by most common definitions what the grey market is: a cheaper alternative to the authorized distribution network. I have no problem with free market or the greys but I think there’s a few big differences between the grey market in its traditional sense an what we have now.

In the past you had two option pay msrp or, perhaps, a small discounted price from an AD and get the all of security that comes from buying an often counterfeit item straight from the authorized distribution network of the manufacturer.

Your other option was to buy at an even larger, perhaps better, discount than you could obtain on your own but outside the security of that authorized network. Hence the “buy the seller motto” that is so famous here.

I think people are upset with the market today because the options seem to be buy grey for over MSRP or perhaps don’t buy at all. So in essence the grey market has become a way to pay more money for a watch outside the authorized network than within. Higher prices and less security is not how the grey market is supposed to work. It’s designed to be an alternative cheaper option, not, in some cases, the only option and in most cases a more expensive option. The trade off is now availability instead of price.

Only in a luxury market among the ridiculously wealthy would a grey market exists where people are paying more than MSRP for technically previously owned watches outside the Manufacture’s authorized distribution network. But not only does it exist but people defend it from rebuke. These are not rare or vintage watches. We’re talking made on a Monday, bought on a Tuesday, flipped on a Wednesday, bought at over MSRP on a Thursday, post pictures and stories on Friday watches.

I think it speaks volumes to the trust and loyalty that the Greys have built over the years that they can even operate under these conditions. Especially when the big ones on this site are the exceptions not the rule when it comes to honesty and customer service. If they were the norm we wouldn’t have the “watch out” section or the “buy the seller” warning. Which implies if you get burnt buying grey it’s not the grey markets fault it’s the buyers fault. Yet this is somehow the market that is favorable over ADS or at least defended.

We’ve all seen the videos of $100,000 watches being sold at what look like indoor flea markets. For those who’ve only ever bought from ADs that’s not a reassuring sight. You think they can view that video and then pay more for any of those watches than from an AD? These are the same people who start threads about not wanting sales people touching their watches or white gloves or Diet Coke.

As far as free market and capitalism and all the other patriotic defenses go I think it’s probably a moot point. When they were buying at $7,000 and selling at $8,000 for a watch that MSRP for $9550 or now buying watches that MSRP for $12,500 for $25,000 and selling for $28,000 they were and still are utilizing the market to their advantage to make a profit. It just used to fit more neatly into people’s view of how the market works. Both capitalism. But capitalism is two sided. Not only do capitalist like to sell high they also like to buy low. Everyone loves capitalism until they’re the one not getting the good deal.

As for the greys and their pricing I say good for them. If there are actually people in this world who can’t wait to have their next wrist watch to the point they will pay thousands more now than they would pay if they waited then absolutely take advantage of that. Price gauge until that market dries up. But I think the big difference is now they’re controlling the market to some degree. And for people who only bought from ADs in the past, who got what they wanted instantly, not being able to buy from them now and seeing the high priced grey alternatives has crushed their sense of importance and entitlement. Their lack of success at the AD has turned to frustration with the greys.

It is after all the people who are waiting that are frustrated. We all get cranky when we have to wait. Think Disney World splash mountain, 98 degree day. You’ve been waiting 2 hours with the hungry kids and the guy who paid for the vip tour just walked straight to the front of the line. Mutter Függer.

Alternatively most people paying over MSRP at the greys seem happy. The even post how happy they are. I suppose there is also the group who pay over MSRP but then swear they’ve never paid over MSRP because they don’t want to come off as financially too rich to care or irresponsible or inpatient or…whatever but when they’re getting into your boat at splash mountain they definitely don’t care how much they paid: they are happy.


But greys are not just living the good life worry free. There’s a huge risk for the greys as well. Sometimes they appear to be entrepreneurial geniuses living the dream life of selling watches. Then you hear stories that they have 20 GMTs and I know I could never live in that world of financial high risk. I think the biggest risk for them now is how much inventory they’ll be holding when the market cools down and no one is buying $8000 watches for $16,000 anymore. . .

Either way the “my relationship with my AD ” and “the greys are not bad ” or “the greys are creating shortages” or “my AD is in league with the greys” threads will always have points and counterpoints. It’s interesting how defensive buying watches can get. It would be more interesting if an AD or a grey ever chimed in but I doubt anyone will ever get to truly see behind the curtain.

One of the best posts I’ve ever read. On the Internet. Ever.

[enjoythemusic]

i think TRF depends on greys.

[Blansky]

I love my Grey.

[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by Blansky

I love my Grey.

Love CAGs! Had a Chestnut-Fronted Macaw... great pets, true family members

Here's my old grey and macaw (grey went to ex in pic).

05.jpg

[TK-710]

Originally Posted by Blansky

I love my Grey.

My 2 kids and I have been trying to get one for years but the wife says no. How does 25% of the population control so much power!

[JParm]

Originally Posted by TK-710

TldProofR

I think the argument that no one complained about the greys when they were getting a discount is invalid. That’s like saying no one complained when the system was working. That is after all by most common definitions what the grey market is: a cheaper alternative to the authorized distribution network. I have no problem with free market or the greys but I think there’s a few big differences between the grey market in its traditional sense an what we have now.

In the past you had two option pay msrp or, perhaps, a small discounted price from an AD and get the all of security that comes from buying an often counterfeit item straight from the authorized distribution network of the manufacturer.

Your other option was to buy at an even larger, perhaps better, discount than you could obtain on your own but outside the security of that authorized network. Hence the “buy the seller motto” that is so famous here.

I think people are upset with the market today because the options seem to be buy grey for over MSRP or perhaps don’t buy at all. So in essence the grey market has become a way to pay more money for a watch outside the authorized network than within. Higher prices and less security is not how the grey market is supposed to work. It’s designed to be an alternative cheaper option, not, in some cases, the only option and in most cases a more expensive option. The trade off is now availability instead of price.

Only in a luxury market among the ridiculously wealthy would a grey market exists where people are paying more than MSRP for technically previously owned watches outside the Manufacture’s authorized distribution network. But not only does it exist but people defend it from rebuke. These are not rare or vintage watches. We’re talking made on a Monday, bought on a Tuesday, flipped on a Wednesday, bought at over MSRP on a Thursday, post pictures and stories on Friday watches.

I think it speaks volumes to the trust and loyalty that the Greys have built over the years that they can even operate under these conditions. Especially when the big ones on this site are the exceptions not the rule when it comes to honesty and customer service. If they were the norm we wouldn’t have the “watch out” section or the “buy the seller” warning. Which implies if you get burnt buying grey it’s not the grey markets fault it’s the buyers fault. Yet this is somehow the market that is favorable over ADS or at least defended.

We’ve all seen the videos of $100,000 watches being sold at what look like indoor flea markets. For those who’ve only ever bought from ADs that’s not a reassuring sight. You think they can view that video and then pay more for any of those watches than from an AD? These are the same people who start threads about not wanting sales people touching their watches or white gloves or Diet Coke.

As far as free market and capitalism and all the other patriotic defenses go I think it’s probably a moot point. When they were buying at $7,000 and selling at $8,000 for a watch that MSRP for $9550 or now buying watches that MSRP for $12,500 for $25,000 and selling for $28,000 they were and still are utilizing the market to their advantage to make a profit. It just used to fit more neatly into people’s view of how the market works. Both capitalism. But capitalism is two sided. Not only do capitalist like to sell high they also like to buy low. Everyone loves capitalism until they’re the one not getting the good deal.

As for the greys and their pricing I say good for them. If there are actually people in this world who can’t wait to have their next wrist watch to the point they will pay thousands more now than they would pay if they waited then absolutely take advantage of that. Price gauge until that market dries up. But I think the big difference is now they’re controlling the market to some degree. And for people who only bought from ADs in the past, who got what they wanted instantly, not being able to buy from them now and seeing the high priced grey alternatives has crushed their sense of importance and entitlement. Their lack of success at the AD has turned to frustration with the greys.

It is after all the people who are waiting that are frustrated. We all get cranky when we have to wait. Think Disney World splash mountain, 98 degree day. You’ve been waiting 2 hours with the hungry kids and the guy who paid for the vip tour just walked straight to the front of the line. Mutter Függer.

Alternatively most people paying over MSRP at the greys seem happy. The even post how happy they are. I suppose there is also the group who pay over MSRP but then swear they’ve never paid over MSRP because they don’t want to come off as financially too rich to care or irresponsible or inpatient or…whatever but when they’re getting into your boat at splash mountain they definitely don’t care how much they paid: they are happy.


But greys are not just living the good life worry free. There’s a huge risk for the greys as well. Sometimes they appear to be entrepreneurial geniuses living the dream life of selling watches. Then you hear stories that they have 20 GMTs and I know I could never live in that world of financial high risk. I think the biggest risk for them now is how much inventory they’ll be holding when the market cools down and no one is buying $8000 watches for $16,000 anymore. . .

Either way the “my relationship with my AD ” and “the greys are not bad ” or “the greys are creating shortages” or “my AD is in league with the greys” threads will always have points and counterpoints. It’s interesting how defensive buying watches can get. It would be more interesting if an AD or a grey ever chimed in but I doubt anyone will ever get to truly see behind the curtain.

Originally Posted by superdog

One of the best posts I’ve ever read. On the Internet. Ever.

I have to agree. That was very well put and worth the read.

[Tricolore66]

The greys are heroes when you saved $2k on your NIB Milgauss 3 years ago and villains when they have 5 NIB 116500’s in stock at 3x MSRP today. It’s just a market, don’t take it personally.

[Blansky]

Originally Posted by TK-710

My 2 kids and I have been trying to get one for years but the wife says no. How does 25% of the population control so much power!

Gerrymandering????

[TK-710]

Originally Posted by Blansky

Gerrymandering????

Well there ought to be a law against it.

[m j b]

Originally Posted by LuminousMaximus

We didn't complain when we were buying most Rolex for 1/2 the cost of ROLEX Prices...

This. These youngsters (relative to the experience of most of us) don't know or understand how it was.

Originally Posted by Harry-57

It's YouTwitFace behaviour.

Can I use that?

Originally Posted by TK-710

TldProofR

LOL, nice post, but you had me at TLDpR.

[doboy007]

Originally Posted by TK-710

TldProofR

I think the argument that no one complained about the greys when they were getting a discount is invalid. That’s like saying no one complained when the system was working. That is after all by most common definitions what the grey market is: a cheaper alternative to the authorized distribution network. I have no problem with free market or the greys but I think there’s a few big differences between the grey market in its traditional sense an what we have now.

In the past you had two option pay msrp or, perhaps, a small discounted price from an AD and get the all of security that comes from buying an often counterfeit item straight from the authorized distribution network of the manufacturer.

Your other option was to buy at an even larger, perhaps better, discount than you could obtain on your own but outside the security of that authorized network. Hence the “buy the seller motto” that is so famous here.

I think people are upset with the market today because the options seem to be buy grey for over MSRP or perhaps don’t buy at all. So in essence the grey market has become a way to pay more money for a watch outside the authorized network than within. Higher prices and less security is not how the grey market is supposed to work. It’s designed to be an alternative cheaper option, not, in some cases, the only option and in most cases a more expensive option. The trade off is now availability instead of price.

Only in a luxury market among the ridiculously wealthy would a grey market exists where people are paying more than MSRP for technically previously owned watches outside the Manufacture’s authorized distribution network. But not only does it exist but people defend it from rebuke. These are not rare or vintage watches. We’re talking made on a Monday, bought on a Tuesday, flipped on a Wednesday, bought at over MSRP on a Thursday, post pictures and stories on Friday watches.

I think it speaks volumes to the trust and loyalty that the Greys have built over the years that they can even operate under these conditions. Especially when the big ones on this site are the exceptions not the rule when it comes to honesty and customer service. If they were the norm we wouldn’t have the “watch out” section or the “buy the seller” warning. Which implies if you get burnt buying grey it’s not the grey markets fault it’s the buyers fault. Yet this is somehow the market that is favorable over ADS or at least defended.

We’ve all seen the videos of $100,000 watches being sold at what look like indoor flea markets. For those who’ve only ever bought from ADs that’s not a reassuring sight. You think they can view that video and then pay more for any of those watches than from an AD? These are the same people who start threads about not wanting sales people touching their watches or white gloves or Diet Coke.

As far as free market and capitalism and all the other patriotic defenses go I think it’s probably a moot point. When they were buying at $7,000 and selling at $8,000 for a watch that MSRP for $9550 or now buying watches that MSRP for $12,500 for $25,000 and selling for $28,000 they were and still are utilizing the market to their advantage to make a profit. It just used to fit more neatly into people’s view of how the market works. Both capitalism. But capitalism is two sided. Not only do capitalist like to sell high they also like to buy low. Everyone loves capitalism until they’re the one not getting the good deal.

As for the greys and their pricing I say good for them. If there are actually people in this world who can’t wait to have their next wrist watch to the point they will pay thousands more now than they would pay if they waited then absolutely take advantage of that. Price gauge until that market dries up. But I think the big difference is now they’re controlling the market to some degree. And for people who only bought from ADs in the past, who got what they wanted instantly, not being able to buy from them now and seeing the high priced grey alternatives has crushed their sense of importance and entitlement. Their lack of success at the AD has turned to frustration with the greys.

It is after all the people who are waiting that are frustrated. We all get cranky when we have to wait. Think Disney World splash mountain, 98 degree day. You’ve been waiting 2 hours with the hungry kids and the guy who paid for the vip tour just walked straight to the front of the line. Mutter Függer.

Alternatively most people paying over MSRP at the greys seem happy. The even post how happy they are. I suppose there is also the group who pay over MSRP but then swear they’ve never paid over MSRP because they don’t want to come off as financially too rich to care or irresponsible or inpatient or…whatever but when they’re getting into your boat at splash mountain they definitely don’t care how much they paid: they are happy.


But greys are not just living the good life worry free. There’s a huge risk for the greys as well. Sometimes they appear to be entrepreneurial geniuses living the dream life of selling watches. Then you hear stories that they have 20 GMTs and I know I could never live in that world of financial high risk. I think the biggest risk for them now is how much inventory they’ll be holding when the market cools down and no one is buying $8000 watches for $16,000 anymore. . .

Either way the “my relationship with my AD ” and “the greys are not bad ” or “the greys are creating shortages” or “my AD is in league with the greys” threads will always have points and counterpoints. It’s interesting how defensive buying watches can get. It would be more interesting if an AD or a grey ever chimed in but I doubt anyone will ever get to truly see behind the curtain.

Wow, wasn't going to read since it was long but glad I did.

[Blansky]

Conversely, if you don't like the BEAST, starve the beast.

Turn off the noise.

Vote with your pocketbook. Find another product.

If you love football on TV. And the networks decided to play a commercial every 30 seconds, you may be able to find workarounds, complain, cry, or whatever.....

Or you could just shut it off and find another hobby/outlet for your time.

[Chester01]

Originally Posted by LuminousMaximus

Please Stop Complaining about the, "Greys...!"

They provide a great service, take a Lot of Risk, have lots of $$ tied up in inventory, and take in many many watches in trade that most Of us are just happy to get rid of...

Even then, they have to clean up the watch, Market and advertise, and get it sold with lots of competition.

We didn't complain when we were buying most Rolex for 1/2 the cost of ROLEX Prices...

The Market is the Market, and People with Deep Pockets drive up the price... Not the Greys...

The grays have deep pockets and buy up far more than the folks looking for a retirement gift or graduation present. The vast number of gray's and the massive amount they buy up every week add to the "people with deep pockets" as you put in.

Lets say you got 100 chickens at the trough, and they take out some food here and there. Now you get some wolves, maybe 10, but they are gulping food all the time, not only on special occasions, but every day taking more and more. That crowds out the chickens, now. Math wins this one folks. One cannot discount the every growing number of gray dealers buying up watches from the AD on the daily. Even large watch collections are made over several years and are what like 10 rolex watches say? A gray will buy 10 in a couple days. That matters. There are 380 Rolex AD's in the entire world, so the wolves coming and taking globs of Rolex watches every week, matters.

That said, I do agree they serve a purpose. The AD extorts one to buy all kinds of other watches that we may not want, and the Gray does that for us, at a premium. One can argue that I may have to spend 100k at the AD to buy a Daytona and so paying 40k is actually a "deal".

[TK-710]

Originally Posted by superdog

One of the best posts I’ve ever read. On the Internet. Ever.

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Thank you

[BillA]

I think a poster alluded to the problem that bothers me. Years ago we had a choice where to buy a watch, from an AD or a grey dealer. Today we have no choice. We walk into an AD and the displays are bare. So now the only alternative is the grey market. I don’t know about others, but I like to have a choice. However, there are no choices today on professional Rolex SS watches. I am not excited about one party being the only place to buy the watch but that party is controlling the market prices.