How do you know it's not stolen...?

[dalip]

Originally Posted by Robwilliams

Who cares if it is stolen, anyway. If the price is right and you like the watch, buy it and just don't ever send it to the RSC. Find a certified Rolex watchmaker when you need service. They never check the numbers.

You have just condoned handling stolen goods on this forum.

Many here have had their watches taken by the scum that prey in this way. Scum that you clearly support.

As a result you are not welcome here anymore....

[xjeeunitx]

Originally Posted by Robwilliams

Who cares if it is stolen, anyway. If the price is right and you like the watch, buy it and just don't ever send it to the RSC. Find a certified Rolex watchmaker when you need service. They never check the numbers.

Horrible. Every heard of a boomerang effect? Let's hope that it doesn't happen to you. It disgusts me that you and I come from the same state.

Honestly, there really is no way to 100% check if the watch was stolen. That's why you should definitely buy the seller and not the watch. Pawn shops and eBay are the first places these crooks and thieves go to sell their items. Boxes and papers ensure the item was not stolen unless when they knew exactly where the box and papers were when they robbed the house. I don't think a real robber would care unless they are or used to be a jeweler and are mostly in for a quick buck. Hope this helps.

[HL65]

Originally Posted by dalip

You have just condoned handling stolen goods on this forum.

Many here have had their watches taken by the scum that prey in this way. Scum that you clearly support.

As a result you are not welcome here anymore....

Good move and couldn't agree more my friend!!

[gwozhog]

Originally Posted by Robwilliams

Who cares if it is stolen, anyway. If the price is right and you like the watch, buy it and just don't ever send it to the RSC. Find a certified Rolex watchmaker when you need service. They never check the numbers.

Maybe the guy who worked his but off to buy the rolex cares. But it sounds like it is your universe and we all just live in it.

[cgjane]

I find it hilarious that the guy that got banned had this thread:

http://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=147606

[gwozhog]

Originally Posted by cgjane

I find it hilarious that the guy that got banned had this thread:

http://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=147606

:r ofl::rofl
Kharma really is a bitch!

[paddy_crow]

its yours, you paid for it fair and square, hoping its not stolen.

If it is ever found to be stolen, it will be confiscated and you will be SOL.

If you buy from someone on the other side of the country, chances are it'll never be discovered. But if you buy from someone local and the watch was reported stolen to a local police department, it could get checked. A simple thing like taking out an insurance rider for your watch could result in them running the watch through a police database.

[cgjane]

Originally Posted by gwozhog

:r ofl::rofl
Kharma really is a bitch!

The secret word is : Boomerang

[achova]

As mentioned earlier a key is proper submission of theft report. Local resellers check against local law-enforcement databases and the Internet is making for a more ubiquitous repository.

Even if data is not in a central database notification to a forum like this of theft (e.g. make / model / serial number / location) should be sufficient. Prospective buyer (or seller) can then execute a Google search on keywords like "Rolex 16610 [serial number] stolen" - no hits is a good thing.

I also check against Watch Searcher and this is another place to submit in the event of loss. But it is not clear what they have on the backend (i.e. pulling from company databases) and it's worth noting this site has reported database errors in the recent-past.

Buy the seller.

[paddy_crow]

I bought a used watch, but I bought from an AD and they included the papers from when the watch was purchased new.

[mastermixer]

I have to hold all the watches I buy for 35 days before I sell them, also have to take their fingerprint and get a copy of their drivers license. Most of the time its their watch and the license matches the warranty papers. Is this 100% full proof, no but it greatly reduces the odds of it happening.

Originally Posted by Newbieone

One more question, no disrespect intended, how do the trusted sellers guarantee that the watches they sell are not stolen. I see that some of these watches come from other countries, some not...? Where do the trusted sellers obtain their watches...?

I agree that that the box and papers help, I suppose a receipt in the name of the seller would be a near perfect scenario...

[bondtoys]

Originally Posted by DiamondJack

I generally only buy with box and papers so unless some unfortunate person had it all packaged up and ready to go when the burglar or mugger struck, I should be pretty safe to assume mine are not lost or stolen.........

+1
Buy with box and certificate and you minimize the risk of a "hot" item.

If you need more safety there is only one way: Buy new from an AD.

[T-Rip]

That's terrible I'm sorry. Good luck.

[Rameez-Q]

I have recently had my watch stolen

Reported serial with local shops etc.

All major jewellers will check the serial with Rolex & Take ID before buying a watch.

Here is the email I received for reporting my watch as stolen:

Please could we receive the following details in writing:

- Your contact details

- Crime reference number

- Name of the Police dept. handling the complaint

- Serial number of the watch

- Model of the watch

- Date of theft



Please send the following details to:

Rolex Watch Company Ltd

Stolen Department

1 Jubilee Way

Kings Hill

West Malling

Kent

ME19 4NR



If you have any questions, feel free to call me, I will be happy to assist you. Once added to the register, should your watch turn up at any of our service centres around the world, the watch will be seized and you will be contacted.



We apologise for your loss, and hope that your timepiece is returned to you in the near future.



Kind regards,

As we can see, the database is worldwide but only limited to Rolex and Rolex approved watchmakers who can check serial against the database

[Submariner2015]

Quote:
its yours, you paid for it fair and square, hoping its not stolen.

-Anytime anyone purchases anything secondhand or preowned without the original paperwork (even with it), there is always a chance the item is stolen--general rule of thumb is to try to buy from a reputable seller; though there are no guarantees with that either...long story short: nothing ventured nothing gained...within reason of course :)

[Rolex addict]

Originally Posted by Robwilliams

Who cares if it is stolen, anyway. If the price is right and you like the watch, buy it and just don't ever send it to the RSC. Find a certified Rolex watchmaker when you need service. They never check the numbers.

To be able to repair a Rolex, one must have a parts account. The past few years, Rolex has taken this away from many people. My local AD said that businesses who still have a parts account must send in the old parts along with model/serial number of the watch being repaired. This may or may not be accurate. I'm just saying what the AD told me. I know a lot of people get their panties in a wad over hearsay statements or "scare tactics" used by AD salespeople. I hope it's true. It may help a stolen Rolex get back to the rightful owner even if it isn't taken to a RSC.

[watchnutty]

heard a horror story as of late related to this topic so I will share...

a well known and respected grey market dealer (not on TRF) was caught up in the middle of an out of the country AD's scheme. the European AD was in the process of closing up shop for whatever reason. sold a bunch of watches (all Rolex) to his grey market American contact. contact sold all watches to American buyers with box, papers, card. what grey dealer didn't know is European AD claimed bankrupcy, theft, and fire insurance claims on his business and storefront right around the time he sold watches to Grey Guy USA. European AD tells Grey he's "going out of business for personal reasons". plus since they had a long standing previous relationship, Grey paid for all watches that were heavily discounted on this, "going out of business" sale, in a different way then they usually do business. Euro AD stated he, "didn't want all that money going to bank accounts under his name at the time for personal reasons", since he was closing up shop. Grey agreed and paid his trusted connect in a, let's say, questionable and untraceable method because the items were indeed, heavily discounted and grey could make a killing on this shipment.

fast forward 4 years to 2015...

Grey continues business without a hitch, selling many watches before and after his relationship with Euro AD has ended.

the first Rolex Grey sold from that discounted lot 4 years later finds its way to RSC for a service and the poor innocent buyer can't get his watch back. Grey is contacted and immediately refunds buyer who he has done business on several watches with, just like any stand up Grey would. Grey starts the due diligence. Grey cannot contact Euro through any of their previous means and methods of communication. Grey inquiries about other Rolex watches from Euro through USA AD friend, and since Grey keeps a book with all watches, prices and serials, he's ever bought/sold, asks him to check all the numbers for this group of watches from Euro AD.

all watches in that heavily discounted one time deal lot are flagged ""Reported Stolen" by Rolex.

all other watches sold before that transaction between Grey and Euro come up clean.

24 watches. only 1 sent in to RSC in the past 4 years. eventually most will find their way back to RSC and then stripped off the wrist of innocents.

23 more watches out there, so Grey being one of the good guys does the right thing... closes up shop temporarily, contacts every last one of his former clients, and buys back every watch at sold cost with apologies and explanations. thankfully all those clients were keepers and not flippers, so every last watch was recovered by Grey.

Grey is currently recovering from that huge financial loss but has gained the undying loyalty of 24 clients and a reputation that will follow him into the next life.

FIN

[RPB]

Wow! Thats shocking and brilliant all in one! Great service from the Grey.

[sickened1]

Yeah, what a story. That grey market dealer has such integrity... even more so than the AD (which reported stuff being stolen when it wasn't).

[handsfull]

Originally Posted by watchnutty

heard a horror story as of late related to this topic so I will share...

a well known and respected grey market dealer (not on TRF) was caught up in the middle of an out of the country AD's scheme. the European AD was in the process of closing up shop for whatever reason. sold a bunch of watches (all Rolex) to his grey market American contact. contact sold all watches to American buyers with box, papers, card. what grey dealer didn't know is European AD claimed bankrupcy, theft, and fire insurance claims on his business and storefront right around the time he sold watches to Grey Guy USA. European AD tells Grey he's "going out of business for personal reasons". plus since they had a long standing previous relationship, Grey paid for all watches that were heavily discounted on this, "going out of business" sale, in a different way then they usually do business. Euro AD stated he, "didn't want all that money going to bank accounts under his name at the time for personal reasons", since he was closing up shop. Grey agreed and paid his trusted connect in a, let's say, questionable and untraceable method because the items were indeed, heavily discounted and grey could make a killing on this shipment.

fast forward 4 years to 2015...

Grey continues business without a hitch, selling many watches before and after his relationship with Euro AD has ended.

the first Rolex Grey sold from that discounted lot 4 years later finds its way to RSC for a service and the poor innocent buyer can't get his watch back. Grey is contacted and immediately refunds buyer who he has done business on several watches with, just like any stand up Grey would. Grey starts the due diligence. Grey cannot contact Euro through any of their previous means and methods of communication. Grey inquiries about other Rolex watches from Euro through USA AD friend, and since Grey keeps a book with all watches, prices and serials, he's ever bought/sold, asks him to check all the numbers for this group of watches from Euro AD.

all watches in that heavily discounted one time deal lot are flagged ""Reported Stolen" by Rolex.

all other watches sold before that transaction between Grey and Euro come up clean.

24 watches. only 1 sent in to RSC in the past 4 years. eventually most will find their way back to RSC and then stripped off the wrist of innocents.

23 more watches out there, so Grey being one of the good guys does the right thing... closes up shop temporarily, contacts every last one of his former clients, and buys back every watch at sold cost with apologies and explanations. thankfully all those clients were keepers and not flippers, so every last watch was recovered by Grey.

Grey is currently recovering from that huge financial loss but has gained the undying loyalty of 24 clients and a reputation that will follow him into the next life.

FIN

I would like to know the Seller. Tracking down buyers and issuing refunds? I would buy a watch from him in a heartbeat.

[watchnutty]

wish I could help with the identity of the mystery man (Grey). I was told this horror story from another WIS who gave me all the details above. since he sometimes buys watches from Grey and puts a little on top for himself, he would not give up his source. he has sold to myself and a few members of our group so if he gave us a name, we would all go direct to the source. I've tried to bribe and beg him recently for this guys identity just so I can give him a verbal pat on the back for being a stand up guy, but my WIS friend won't budge. believe me, I tried!

[mjm800]

Yeah, there is a local watch dealer where I live. I go in from time to time and every single Rolex has no box and no papers. That makes me very wary of buying from them. Of course they say everything is legit but they also say they can service a Rolex but they are not certified nor do they have a parts account.

Buy from an AD or trusted seller with box and papers. I would hate to buy a stolen watch, that would be the worst thing ever!

[jon_jon]

I suppose if gray dealer above had records of transaction with AD in canceled checks or credit card transactions, it would be a moot point. There must have been some written receipts of the watch transactions even if gray dealer paid by cash. Certainly the written receipt could be used to file a claim to the European AD for insurance fraud, assuming the European AD can be tracked. If this was in the US, it is hard for someone who operated a Rolex AD to disappear from the face of earth. They have business license records and even personal information that can be used to get a private investigator after them. So I don't know if this is a true story or not, but interesting point in buying a watch from a gray seller.

[Solo118]

Very scary stuff, amazing that even watches with box and papers could still be on a so called black list.

Myself I try to be as safe as possible, and I will only buy from stand up members that have only positive reviews in the TRF Who's Who, or of course one of our trusted dealers.

[watchnutty]

Originally Posted by jon_jon

I suppose if gray dealer above had records of transaction with AD in canceled checks or credit card transactions, it would be a moot point. There must have been some written receipts of the watch transactions even if gray dealer paid by cash. Certainly the written receipt could be used to file a claim to the European AD for insurance fraud, assuming the European AD can be tracked. If this was in the US, it is hard for someone who operated a Rolex AD to disappear from the face of earth. They have business license records and even personal information that can be used to get a private investigator after them. So I don't know if this is a true story or not, but interesting point in buying a watch from a gray seller.

from what I was told the final large transaction Grey made with the Euro AD was completely off the books at the AD's request, and since Grey had no reason to think something was amiss, and he was getting great prices, he complied.
the details of the transaction were told to be, "untraceable" by my WIS friend. he had no more details to provide on that. I have no reason to doubt this story since my WIS friend just sold a SubC he got from Grey to a mutual friend, so this dealer is very real and still active. whether or not the story is true, only my WIS friend knows for sure, and he told the story with vim and vigor to our group. also he is not know by any of us to be a yarn spinner, so we all believe it's true.
come to your own conclusions, but any person with basic internet knowledge knows that it's totally possible to pay for something nowadays with zero trace. from Bitcoin to fedex'd boxes of cash to diamonds to precious metals, possible is anything.

[bondtoys]

So how can the AD report 2 dozen of Rolex watches being stolen?
I am sure that doing that with an european RSC will require more than a phonecall or a letter.

Did the Grey dealer dispute with his attorney with Rolex to get the watches records clean?

[watchnutty]

Originally Posted by bondtoys

So how can the AD report 2 dozen of Rolex watches being stolen?
I am sure that doing that with an european RSC will require more than a phonecall or a letter.

Did the Grey dealer dispute with his attorney with Rolex to get the watches records clean?

yes, it would require more than that, like a police report of a robbery listing all the "stolen" watches and their serials, which he had because he fabricated the whole robbery thing in the first place.
as far as who reported it to RSC? that is unclear. could've been the cops or the AD himself or the insurance company who reimbursed him for the "loss". all 3 of those parties had a list of all watches/serial

As far as I was told, all grey did was track down all the buyers and make it right, and that Euro AD was never seen nor heard of again. maybe he got in a bad way with the wrong people. the world may never know...

[evlkoala]

Originally Posted by jhupp

What if it is something that can't be bought new? Like a red sub?

what if someone spent lets say $15-20k on a red sub w/o box/papers, but not knowing that it was reported stolen 30-40 years ago.
The red sub went through a few different owners then the last owner send it to RSC and find out it's a reported stolen item?

[997.2]

Originally Posted by swatty

That's why you should buy from one of the trusted sellers here on TRF. DavidSW, Bobybump, Mosco, just to name a few

True but even then you could send it in and it could be confiscated!!!

[watchnutty]

Originally Posted by 997.2

True but even then you could send it in and it could be confiscated!!!

yup. only way to be 100% sure is to buy from an established AD like Torneau or another big name AD that has a long time in the business and isn't going anywhere for the next 30-40 years.

that being said I get all my watches from grey dealers.