Patek or ALS

[vecca]

What would you do?

I currently have a white gold / olive green dial, Day-Date. It was my first “real watch” and was purchased to mark a significant time in my life. It isn’t going anywhere.

I’m now thinking of adding a 2nd watch. It will be a keeper as well. I am thinking of spending $100k +/-. I’ve narrowed my search down to the PP 5270 and ALS Datograph. (Either will be purchased pre-owned)

I’m leaning towards the 5270, even at the price premium, but thought I’d see if there was something I’m overlooking…

Thanks in advance

[FrugalGreubel]

Never seen the 5270 in person but I have seen the Datograph. I’d go with the Datograph just for the caseback.

[thetahoess]

Are you more of a classic guy or an attitude guy? If you're into classic beauty, there is no watch more so than the Patek 5270 IMO. If you're into high horology with an edge, I would go for the Lange. The other consideration is that if you're looking for something that most people will not know, Lange definitely fits that bill.

I just picked up a WG Olive DD myself a few days ago. Phenomenal watch.

B

[le_baron]

Originally Posted by thetahoess

Are you more of a classic guy or an attitude guy? If you're into classic beauty, there is no watch more so than the Patek 5270 IMO. If you're into high horology with an edge, I would go for the Lange. The other consideration is that if you're looking for something that most people will not know, Lange definitely fits that bill.

B

I agree. I also think you need to try on each option, ideally multiple times.

[Rushne]

Having just gone through this Patek V ALS battle personally for an Annual Calendar. I voted with my wallet for ALS.
In your case. Having seen both. Hands down I’d stick with ALS

[s14roller]

Both great pieces but admit recently also like the Dato more

[ap1]

If you have 7inch + wrist than 5270. Patek wins with a more romantic case. Als too thick, esp that model for me

[WatchEater666]

Anything past $70k used and I would strongly consider an independent. Youll get much more watch for the money.

I’d also throw Breguet in there. Many of their pieces are objectively better finished than patek or ALS but they trade at a bigger discount. If you’re going used, it’s a great brand.

[charger_vital]

Originally Posted by WatchEater666

Anything past $70k used and I would strongly consider an independent. Youll get much more watch for the money.

100% agree.

Also… I’m not sure why we are talking about ALS and Patek in the same sentence. Patek is king and ALS is a beta watch if I’ve ever seen one. Just my opinion.


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[GB-man]

Originally Posted by charger_vital

100% agree.

Also… I’m not sure why we are talking about ALS and Patek in the same sentence. Patek is king and ALS is a beta watch if I’ve ever seen one. Just my opinion.


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Idk I definitely prefer patek for the history, case designs and overall warmth but the dato is brutal and quite masculine to be calling beta lol I think most watch geeks would be tickled pink to get one cheap.

Comparing most watches to a patek PCC is tough. It’s sort of a default lux choice. I’d much prefer a 5970 if money isn’t a concern but can’t blame anyone for saving $75k-100k and getting the 5270 series.

[NYG1121]

Dato. So much more character

[APhound]

5270 my vote. Love mine. Also have and love Lange but the 5270 is so good.


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[hgg43c]

Datograph for sure


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[subtona]

I would choose patek but likely a different model

[GB-man]

Between the two I prefer the 5270.

[misochew]

It’s so simple. …Both

[1William]

ALS for sure. More unique.

[vecca]

Thanks for all the responses... I love the 5970, but that's more than I would like to spend.

A few of you have suggested there are others (in that price range - $100k+/-) that you would consider. I'm all ears.

[ts3]

Originally Posted by vecca

Thanks for all the responses... I love the 5970, but that's more than I would like to spend.

A few of you have suggested there are others (in that price range - $100k+/-) that you would consider. I'm all ears.

At around 100k I'd rather look at a 3940P PC or a 5170P chrono. I prefer their looks and smaller size on my 6.6 inch wrist and I value looks and comfort most when considering a watch. Also believe some of the more attractive 5270s such as the 5270P salmon remain a sizeable chunk above 100k.

[WatchEater666]

Originally Posted by vecca

Thanks for all the responses... I love the 5970, but that's more than I would like to spend.

A few of you have suggested there are others (in that price range - $100k+/-) that you would consider. I'm all ears.

Used or new?

Really most independents will make a much better watch for the $.

Romain Gauthier, Mb&f, Armin Strom, Gronefeld, maybe a little more and a used Signature 1 from Greubel is in reach. All used.

Mb&f has a lot of killer pieces sub 100k.

[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by WatchEater666

Really most independents will make a much better watch for the $.

Romain Gauthier, Mb&f, Armin Strom, Gronefeld, maybe a little more and a used Signature 1 from Greubel is in reach. All used.

Mb&f has a lot of killer pieces sub 100k.

^^^ sooo much this


-------

OP, you surely know it is no longer peak 1960s Holy Trinity marketing, time has brought forth a far better selection of choices from true independants.

[Watchlurker11]

Originally Posted by WatchEater666

Really most independents will make a much better watch for the $.

is this really the case? I haven't looked at the market closely but recently went to a jewelry store with a pretty robust selection of independents and my impression was IF you did not ascribe value to low production or scarcity, pricing was much higher vs similar complications with larger houses (even the lange / VCs of the world). There were so many 80k-160k watches where i was just like, "why?"

[WatchEater666]

Originally Posted by Watchlurker11

is this really the case? I haven't looked at the market closely but recently went to a jewelry store with a pretty robust selection of independents and my impression was IF you did not ascribe value to low production or scarcity, pricing was much higher vs similar complications with larger houses (even the lange / VCs of the world). There were so many 80k-160k watches where i was just like, "why?"

Yes, especially the brands I posted. Voutilainen and Gauthier annihilate any pp/ap/vc in the same price range. It’s not even close.

[vliberman]

Originally Posted by WatchEater666

Yes, especially the brands I posted. Voutilainen and Gauthier annihilate any pp/ap/vc in the same price range. It’s not even close.

To be frank, none of the independents listed by you offer comparably complicated watches in that price range. Take PC, please suggest what one would get for 100k from MB&F or Voutilainen or any other listed brands?

[Watchlurker11]

Originally Posted by WatchEater666

Yes, especially the brands I posted. Voutilainen and Gauthier annihilate any pp/ap/vc in the same price range. It’s not even close.

I'm not particularly familiar with either and its difficult b/c most retailers have 'price on request' but i'm seeing a hodinkee article on the Voutilainen Vingt-8 ISO which was priced at 72k CHF in 2017 for a time-only watch.

osterjewelers (which i believe is authorized and selling at MSRP) is showing a retrograde (what looks to be a simple, not even annual) calendar for 135k (sold)

hodinkee has an article with a romain gauthier time-only prestige HM with pricing of 60k back in 2018 with the only complication being a micro rotor.

This seems consistent with my earlier observation that it seems like independents price well above comparable watches from 'top-3' level brands (i'm not making a call on whether it is or is not WORTH it. but in the same way that a Lange would price above a JLC for a similarly complicated watch, there seems to a significant premium for independents even over a PP/ALS unless i'm missing something).

[Rushne]

If the dato is too thick the. I’d definitely consider the 1815 Chronograph instead.

[dbfagan]

5270P would be my vote, if I had the cash to vote. I have owned 2 Datographs, the original and the Up/Down, and they are spectacular watches. If you can only add 1 you gotta go with the Grand Complication from Patek.

Late on down the road, you may be able to pick up a Datograph, the prices tend to bounce a bit.

Either way, good luck with your hunt!

[AK797]

I really like the Romans Dato but think you should get a Patek first, maybe not a PCC so you can get the Dato too, ideal would be to have both.

[thesingularity7]

I would likely go independent too, but between these two it would be a tough call that would eventually settle with me picking the 5270 because it just feels more wearable to me. I'm not a fan of the Datograph's protruding case-back and somewhat unweildy case height. $ for $, it does appear you get more with the ALS in terms of finishing though.

[nickorette]

I don't think there is any wrong answers here, but my personal preference is the 5270, just on aesthetics