Just wondering why we call them "Grey Dealers" ?

[258Pearl]

My understanding is that Grey Market products are "new" products, sold outside the authorized manufacturer's channel to the first owners. If the products are not purchased from an authorized seller, then the manufacturer's warranty may not apply.

Let's take the case of a car. A person or entity buys a high demand car like a new Chevy Corvette C8. They order it from an authorized Chevy Dealer and intend to flip it for a profit. They buy it a MSRP. They sell it for a premium above MSRP with 18 miles on it and a transferable manufacture's warranty. The car is technically new or "unworn", but it has been sold through an authorized channel to the first owner.

Would we call this person or entity who sold the car to the second owner a Grey Market Car Dealer or a Pre-Owned/Used Car Dealer?

Just wondering...

[beshannon]

This term has evolved into anything in the secondary market.

[ROlesorusLEX]

You are correct. They are not truly grey dealers. They are parallel market dealers.

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[AbeFroman]

The correct term is secondary dealer (if they resell watches with the factory warranty).

You are correct in meaning that gray dealer is an entity that imports a product through other channels besides the authorized one and the product is sold without the manufacture warranty.

As to why people continue to use the incorrect term, monkey see, monkey do.

[thenewrick]

The term has changed. Now it means anything below AD and above obviously fake/stolen.

It’s a Grey area so Grey dealers. Some Greys sell unworn excess stock without warranties and include their own guarantee. That’s the top of the pile. Other Greys sell stolen and Frankenwatches. They’re on the bottom of the pile. Most fall somewhere in between. Lots of Grey area. From slightly shady to near black.

It’s been discussed many times but there’s no such thing as a guarantee or trusted seller when it comes to used jewelry. Always purchase at your own risk. Everyone has their own level of risk tolerance. No one person is correct.

I have almost no risk tolerance and only buy from AD myself.

[beshannon]

Originally Posted by AbeFroman

The correct term is secondary dealer (if they resell watches with the factory warranty).

You are correct in meaning that gray dealer is an entity that imports a product through other channels besides the authorized one and the product is sold without the manufacture warranty.

As to why people continue to use the incorrect term, monkey see, monkey do.

The bigger question that feeds the "grey" moniker is why authorized dealers have no stock and say they never have stock, yet the secondary market is full of inventory.

The missing piece will likely never be publicly revealed even though everyone knows what is going on.

[inadeje]

While there are many connotations associated with Grey market, not just in the watch world. I guess the most clarity is derived from a reverse definition.

Official Market - (sometimes called white, especially in white-label branding) primary sales channel controlled or condoned by the manufacturer

Grey Market - not officially recognized channel, however legitimate, but not black (disproved)

Black market - we all know what that is

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by beshannon

The bigger question that feeds the "grey" moniker is why authorized dealers have no stock and say they never have stock, yet the secondary market is full of inventory.

The missing piece will likely never be publicly revealed even though everyone knows what is going on.

Precisely.

BNIB Rolex comes from one place, the factory and they only sell to ADs, the authorized sales chanel.

Every Rolex you see for sale elsewhere ultimately come from an AD.

[77T]

OP is on the right path.

Usually “grey” means an unauthorized channel importing a product that is made differently in a home market. Think of the 1990’s Euro-spec Mercedes or Porsches that were brought to US shores and never passed DOT inspection or met US rules. Those profits fueled a mini-market despite fact that you couldn’t get a warranty or even get an authorized dealer to replace parts with Euro-spec parts.

But the entire watch market nuances do get lost if a term gains media notoriety.

So, for Rolex - it’ll be grey market dealers until “the cows come home”.


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[ArtNouveau]

Originally Posted by beshannon

This term has evolved into anything in the secondary market.

This is my definition. The dictionary probably defines it as product sold outside the manufacturer’s normal channels but almost nothing is like that anymore. All Rolex are sold to an authorized dealer first through their multiple country and regional distribution centers. I still call the ones that are resold as grey. They may not have gone direct from factory to seller, instead trading through one or more other parties before the end user buys it.
The grey market cars mentioned above sold here in the US mostly in the 80’s were the same thing. They did not come to the US from their manufacturer, they were bought from Euro dealers and brought here by resellers. Then there was a whole cottage industry here set up to make the car meet then current EPA and DOT regulations at least long enough to pass federal and local licensing restrictions. By the mid 90’s most countries had similar emissions and safety standards so the grey industry started dying out. The US now has Show and Display and the 25 year rule that allow some non-compliant vehicles into the country.
Arguing about the exact definition as it pertains to watches is nothing but semantics. I consider the Trusted Sellers here and the folks on 47th St to be grey dealers, resellers, secondary market, whatever you want to call them.

[258Pearl]

Based on the comments so far, I would venture to say they are not true "Grey" Sellers. I think they are more appropriately conducting business as Watch Resellers or Pre-Owned Watch Dealers.

The "Grey" market does not seem applicable here, but it's the name that has stuck in the industry.

Thank you for all your feedback. It's been really helpful

[Tools]

Originally Posted by 258Pearl

Based on the comments so far, I would venture to say they are not true "Grey" Sellers. I think they are more appropriately conducting business as Watch Resellers or Pre-Owned Watch Dealers.

The "Grey" market does not seem applicable here, but it's the name that has stuck in the industry.

Thank you for all your feedback. It's been really helpful

You are correct, and as long as many continue to not understand the difference, they will not know what they are buying.

[PO 2500D]

They are second hand watch retailers, for me the term grey is misused that's when brokers get new product from a different region and sell it into another.

A grey market runs in the shade but along side the official distribution network in sectors like FMCG.

[temporarychicken]

'Grey' as in overcast weather conditions.

You can go out as normal without a raincoat, but it's kind of a bit miserable and cold.

That's the grey experience. The AD white glove experience is dead and gone though, so grey or nothing.

[fskywalker]

Originally Posted by 258Pearl

Based on the comments so far, I would venture to say they are not true "Grey" Sellers.

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[Calatrava r]

There is no "gray" market for Rolex products as all Rolex watches were first delivered to and sold by ADs. The Rolex gray market really is simply the pre-owned or used watch market. It is interesting to see posters say they went gray where they bought a two-year-old watch, obviously used, from an online seller of used watches. Some of the confusion may be that so many used watches are now being sold in unworn, new like condition and some people think of these watches as "new" even though they are legally considered used watches if the warranty is running. In times past some online sellers could obtain new Rolex surplus from dealers and sell them with the AD filling out the warranty cards when the watches were sold to the online buyers. Rarely happens now, but still an AD transaction and not "gray". Most online dealers refer to themselves as pre-owned sellers, not as gray market dealers. There are gray markets for other less popular brands who have surplus product, and the manufactures or distributors dump their watches to non-ADs to liquidate them. Not a problem for Rolex.

[WatchGuy1966]

Please move this to "open discussion forum" - it's not Rolex/Tudor specific

[Meyrin]

Originally Posted by brandrea

Precisely.

BNIB Rolex comes from one place, the factory and they only sell to ADs, the authorized sales chanel.

Every Rolex you see for sale elsewhere ultimately come from an AD.

This is exactly my understanding too!

[Tim Plains]

The guy selling that Corvette would be a grey market dealer if he got a lot of cars like that and flipped them for a living.

Black market is illegal. Grey is shady AF but not illegal, so we use a lighter color to categorize it. lol

[Michael T]

I first ran into the term thirty years ago in the camera market. You could buy a Nikon USA from their AD network or an imported grey market camera. It was also new but sourced outside the USA dealer network, and sold at a slight discount. Nikon USA did not provide warranty work on grey Nikons.

[horohollis]

It’s sort of like grey water. You can use it for some things but certainly not to drink.

[Nkun]

Originally Posted by Tim Plains

The guy selling that Corvette would be a grey market dealer if he got a lot of cars like that and flipped them for a living.

Black market is illegal. Grey is shady AF but not illegal, so we use a lighter color to categorize it. lol

Love this explanation

[Boopie]

I thought grey dealers were non-AD that sold new Rolex watches (but legally so obviously not black market).

In 2001 I bought my YM BNIB, full kit: boxes, papers, stickers on, unsized, 100% unworn, from a brick and mortar independent watch shop in Beverly Hills. They sold other watch brands (also brand new). They weren’t a used watch shop, just not a Rolex AD. I don’t know where they in turn sourced the watch, but presumably it was an AD somewhere with unsold stock (as opposed to Rolex itself). I always considered them to be a grey dealer.

[Onequik135i]

I remember the term being used early 2000 era when I had traded my previous SS datejust full set that was a non US papered. Mayors at the time sold me a new 2 tone datejust and took my SS model in on trade & they referred to it as a grey market watch I remember.

[JR16]

Originally Posted by Boopie

I thought grey dealers were non-AD that sold new Rolex watches (but legally so obviously not black market).

In 2001 I bought my YM BNIB, full kit: boxes, papers, stickers on, unsized, 100% unworn, from a brick and mortar independent watch shop in Beverly Hills. They sold other watch brands (also brand new). They weren’t a used watch shop, just not a Rolex AD. I don’t know where they in turn sourced the watch, but presumably it was an AD somewhere with unsold stock (as opposed to Rolex itself). I always considered them to be a grey dealer.

They sold you a watch they bought from an AD.

“Grey” is just a lot easier for people to type or say than “pre-owned seller” or “re-seller”.


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[Old Expat Beast]

It's a grey area.

[ogbeans]

It ain’t black or white lololo

[HogwldFLTR]

Originally Posted by Tim Plains

The guy selling that Corvette would be a grey market dealer if he got a lot of cars like that and flipped them for a living.

Black market is illegal. Grey is shady AF but not illegal, so we use a lighter color to categorize it. lol

I agree totally on the color connotations; definitely not as dark as black market.

[RolexNewbie23]

Thanks for explaining that. I had zero idea. Need to learn the lingo.

[DoricSpiker]

My recollection of this was that 20years or so ago, there were a lot of watches on the net that had serial numbers rubbed out. This was so the watch could not be traced. It was therefore called a Grey watch and online dealers sold them. The term was subsequently used for watches with serial numbers but no papers etc and today is used for non AD's.