Electric cars.

[TheVTCGuy]

Originally Posted by 904VT

Environmentalists today do not care about the cause. If they did they would require all “green” based vehicles to eliminate the use of petroleum based plastics in their vehicles. So long as they do not they are nothing by hypocritical. And they are incentivized by government grants to drag this out as long as possible to get more and more funding. Look what Elon did with carbon credits.

This has everything to do with driving up energy costs in certain markets to price out geopolitical adversaries and shift power balances. And a fight for which currency will price crude in the future as some trying to push the petro dollar out of existence.

This will be exposed over the next 5-7 years. The chaos and market volatility in the meanwhile is what affords the opportunity for realignment later. Always the opportunity in the chaos to develop the situation.

You make a very good point. If I read your post correctly you talk about green energy, I.e. It does the environment no good if the electricity used to power EVs comes from a coal-burning energy plant, you are completely correct. My hope is, we gradually transition to green energy sources, solar, wind, geothermal, even some day nuclear fusion. Well, that’s my hope anyway.

I still don’t understand, about exactly who is making money off of this, the power shift you referred to. I admit I am a Dorklehead about financial stuff, maybe you could explain it so even a dummy understands(?).

[TheVTCGuy]

Speaking of! This cartoon was in my local paper today

[Krash]

The last ice age began 100,000 years ago and lasted until about 25,000 years ago. Thank goodness humans were burning fossil fuels to get out of that mess.

I'm being sarcastic of course, but it's quite stunning to me how highly educated people think that getting rid of fossil fuel cars is somehow going to stabilize the climate.

The climate is going to do what the climate is going to do.

Approximately 2.3 million years ago, it rained for 2 million years straight every day just about everywhere on the planet. It is believed that several large volcanic eruptions triggered this event.

How do we know that's not going to happen again?

[thedak]

Originally Posted by Krash

Approximately 2.3 million years ago, it rained for 2 million years straight every day just about everywhere on the planet. It is believed that several large volcanic eruptions triggered this event.

They will sell you an EV Boat.

[TRS1]

Originally Posted by Krash

The last ice age began 100,000 years ago and lasted until about 25,000 years ago. Thank goodness humans were burning fossil fuels to get out of that mess.

I'm being sarcastic of course, but it's quite stunning to me how highly educated people think that getting rid of fossil fuel cars is somehow going to stabilize the climate.

The climate is going to do what the climate is going to do.

Approximately 2.3 million years ago, it rained for 2 million years straight every day just about everywhere on the planet. It is believed that several large volcanic eruptions triggered this event.

How do we know that's not going to happen again?

100% agree.

[V25V]

Originally Posted by thedak

They will sell you an EV Boat.

I literally laughed out loud. Well done.

[JoeJoeBobo]

I’ll just put this here as someone quoted incorrectly Porsche 100% EV by 2030.

https://www.motor1.com/news/627581/p...roduction-911/

[V25V]

Originally Posted by JoeJoeBobo

I’ll just put this here as someone quoted incorrectly Porsche 100% EV by 2030.

https://www.motor1.com/news/627581/p...roduction-911/

Thats not EV, its eFuels. Where does that article say EV by 2030?

[JoeJoeBobo]

Originally Posted by V25V

Thats not EV, its eFuels. Where does that article say EV by 2030?

Read my quoted post again. The article doesn’t someone here did.

[77T]

Originally Posted by TheVTCGuy

Speaking of! This cartoon was in my local paper today

What’s a local paper?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Cloudchaser]

I bought my 2022 Audi EV for the tax breaks. I'm not an EV cultist or anything but when I add the $7500 EV tax credit to the Section 179 benefits around depreciating it 100% in the first year I put it in service (yes, it's that freaking heavy!), well...

It became an affordable luxury car paid for in large part by my Uncle, Sam. Lemme see...big federal tax bill or new Audi? Sort of a no-brainer.

Nice car, too.

[DLRIDES]

Originally Posted by Cloudchaser

I bought my 2022 Audi EV for the tax breaks. I'm not an EV cultist or anything but when I add the $7500 EV tax credit to the Section 179 benefits around depreciating it 100% in the first year I put it in service (yes, it's that freaking heavy!), well...

It became an affordable luxury car paid for in large part by my Uncle, Sam. Lemme see...big federal tax bill or new Audi? Sort of a no-brainer.

Nice car, too.

Somewhere there is a young man changing truck tires in ankle deep mud, at thirty five degrees and wind blowing, hoping he will have the energy to attend his classes tonight at the local community college. Meanwhile the wife is working third shift at a factory while her husband cares for their child after he leaves night classes, and she hopes she has the energy to make it home and get her child ready for school before collapsing.

Both are paying taxes = Uncle Sam = tax credits = luxury car = paid for in large part.

Send them a Thank You card ……………………………….

[pickettt]

Originally Posted by DLRIDES

Somewhere there is a young man changing truck tires in ankle deep mud, at thirty five degrees and wind blowing, hoping he will have the energy to attend his classes tonight at the local community college. Meanwhile the wife is working third shift at a factory while her husband cares for their child after he leaves night classes, and she hopes she has the energy to make it home and get her child ready for school before collapsing.

Both are paying taxes = Uncle Sam = tax credits = luxury car = paid for in large part.

Send them a Thank You card ……………………………….

I may agree with you, but with all due respect, he doesn't write the tax code. Perhaps an F You card to lawmakers who write laws to directly benefit themselves. BTW, the last time I read the laws regarding writing off vehicles, there were more requirements than just weight. Watch yourselves out there.

[TheVTCGuy]

Originally Posted by JoeJoeBobo

I’ll just put this here as someone quoted incorrectly Porsche 100% EV by 2030.

https://www.motor1.com/news/627581/p...roduction-911/

My mistake, it is AUDI, and the year they will stop selling ICE powered vehicles is 2033. Don’t ask me why I thought it was Porsche

https://www.firstpost.com/tech/auto-...c-9744401.html

[RichardBartlett]

There is a guy calls himself the electric viking who posts hundreds of videos on YT about electric vehicles
Now he's a strong convert so is reasonably biased ok heavily biased but he digs out and collates information about EV developments but freely admits not all will work, do work or will ever work but his efforts show just how much and how fast this technology is advancing. back in '05 ish I was lucky to be involved very very briefly in a UK towns electric bus wireless charging project. They set wireless chargers in the ground at bus stops so when busses stopped to drop and pick up they took on charge. These busses had old lead acid batteries because that's where the tech was, but in a few short years such is the progress new busses will have lithium (much better) and the next generation will probably be sodium (x4 better than lithium) .
if they re did the test now the results would be incredible such is the rate of progress

The speed of development in all aspects of EV are mind boggling and if you don't think man can overcome their adversities when thousands and thousands of engineers and billions and billions of dollars are being thrown at the various problems I'm guessing you're likely to be on the wrong side of history.
This tech has so may spill offs into other industries. Cordless power tools and household appliances, mobiles etc will benefit with greater battery strength.


Don't be a party pooping naysayer, stand back and marvel at this new technology going forward and wonder where it can take us rather than moan because we are not there yet.

[Cloudchaser]

Originally Posted by DLRIDES

Somewhere there is a young man changing truck tires in ankle deep mud, at thirty five degrees and wind blowing, hoping he will have the energy to attend his classes tonight at the local community college. Meanwhile the wife is working third shift at a factory while her husband cares for their child after he leaves night classes, and she hopes she has the energy to make it home and get her child ready for school before collapsing.

Both are paying taxes = Uncle Sam = tax credits = luxury car = paid for in large part.

Send them a Thank You card ……………………………….

If we're looking at it like that, then the taxes that I pay are funding that community college that he's attending and the school they're sending the kid to. And the factory she works in is operating on similar asset depreciation loopholes.

I'm merely following the tax codes. Don't hate the player, as they say.

[Cloudchaser]

Originally Posted by pickettt

I may agree with you, but with all due respect, he doesn't write the tax code. Perhaps an F You card to lawmakers who write laws to directly benefit themselves. BTW, the last time I read the laws regarding writing off vehicles, there were more requirements than just weight. Watch yourselves out there.

Reading tax law sounds excruciatingly boring. This is why there are CPAs.

[Cloudchaser]

Originally Posted by RichardBartlett

There is a guy calls himself the electric viking who posts hundreds of videos on YT about electric vehicles
Now he's a strong convert so is reasonably biased ok heavily biased but he digs out and collates information about EV developments but freely admits not all will work, do work or will ever work but his efforts show just how much and how fast this technology is advancing. back in '05 ish I was lucky to be involved very very briefly in a UK towns electric bus wireless charging project. They set wireless chargers in the ground at bus stops so when busses stopped to drop and pick up they took on charge. These busses had old lead acid batteries because that's where the tech was, but in a few short years such is the progress new busses will have lithium (much better) and the next generation will probably be sodium (x4 better than lithium) .
if they re did the test now the results would be incredible such is the rate of progress

The speed of development in all aspects of EV are mind boggling and if you don't think man can overcome their adversities when thousands and thousands of engineers and billions and billions of dollars are being thrown at the various problems I'm guessing you're likely to be on the wrong side of history.
This tech has so may spill offs into other industries. Cordless power tools and household appliances, mobiles etc will benefit with greater battery strength.


Don't be a party pooping naysayer, stand back and marvel at this new technology going forward and wonder where it can take us rather than moan because we are not there yet.

Toyota, the company that started much of this with the Prius (hybrid), would by this logic be a party pooping naysayer on the wrong side of history. I don't think anything is quite so settled yet. We're still in the early stages of the propulsion revolution.

[Andad]

Originally Posted by RichardBartlett

There is a guy calls himself the electric viking who posts hundreds of videos on YT about electric vehicles
Now he's a strong convert so is reasonably biased ok heavily biased but he digs out and collates information about EV developments but freely admits not all will work, do work or will ever work but his efforts show just how much and how fast this technology is advancing. back in '05 ish I was lucky to be involved very very briefly in a UK towns electric bus wireless charging project. They set wireless chargers in the ground at bus stops so when busses stopped to drop and pick up they took on charge. These busses had old lead acid batteries because that's where the tech was, but in a few short years such is the progress new busses will have lithium (much better) and the next generation will probably be sodium (x4 better than lithium) .
if they re did the test now the results would be incredible such is the rate of progress

The speed of development in all aspects of EV are mind boggling and if you don't think man can overcome their adversities when thousands and thousands of engineers and billions and billions of dollars are being thrown at the various problems I'm guessing you're likely to be on the wrong side of history.
This tech has so may spill offs into other industries. Cordless power tools and household appliances, mobiles etc will benefit with greater battery strength.


Don't be a party pooping naysayer, stand back and marvel at this new technology going forward and wonder where it can take us rather than moan because we are not there yet.

Are you also recommending electric cruise ships Richard?

Would they be a contributor to polluting our atmosphere?

Other news.

Electric car owners’ costs jump
December 13, 2022
UPDATED: Norwegian politicians have offered lots of electric car incentives over the years but they’re quickly disappearing, even as Norway urgently needs to cut carbon emissions. The latest electric car shock came just last week, when the City of Oslo nearly tripled the cost of recharging at city-owned charging posts, before being forced to shift into reverse.

[TheVTCGuy]

Originally Posted by RichardBartlett

There is a guy calls himself the electric viking who posts hundreds of videos on YT about electric vehicles
Now he's a strong convert so is reasonably biased ok heavily biased but he digs out and collates information about EV developments but freely admits not all will work, do work or will ever work but his efforts show just how much and how fast this technology is advancing. back in '05 ish I was lucky to be involved very very briefly in a UK towns electric bus wireless charging project. They set wireless chargers in the ground at bus stops so when busses stopped to drop and pick up they took on charge. These busses had old lead acid batteries because that's where the tech was, but in a few short years such is the progress new busses will have lithium (much better) and the next generation will probably be sodium (x4 better than lithium) .
if they re did the test now the results would be incredible such is the rate of progress

The speed of development in all aspects of EV are mind boggling and if you don't think man can overcome their adversities when thousands and thousands of engineers and billions and billions of dollars are being thrown at the various problems I'm guessing you're likely to be on the wrong side of history.
This tech has so may spill offs into other industries. Cordless power tools and household appliances, mobiles etc will benefit with greater battery strength.


Don't be a party pooping naysayer, stand back and marvel at this new technology going forward and wonder where it can take us rather than moan because we are not there yet.

Very well stated and exactly my opinion s well. There are TONS of problems and challenges to overcome, but there is such a HUGE effort underway they all will be. It will take decades, but it will happen.

[TheVTCGuy]

Another state, OREGON, joined California, New York, Massachusetts and Washington to ban the sale of new, gas-only cars by 2035. Of course you can still drive gas only cars after 2035, just can’t purchase new ones in those states. You will still be able to buy new Hybrids, kind of the best of both worlds IMHO.

[Watchflair]

Hydrogen…

It’s coming and sustainable with infrastructure that’s already in place with up fits.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Krash]

Originally Posted by RichardBartlett

Don't be a party pooping naysayer, stand back and marvel at this new technology going forward and wonder where it can take us rather than moan because we are not there yet.

It's hard to marvel at the technology when there are significant limitations.

During Hurrican Ian, my wife and I had to go on a rescue mission. We had to drive from Northeast Florida to Fort Meyers to pick up my mother-in-law and bring her home. Approximately 300 miles.

Most EVs wouldn't make it without us having to stop for a lengthy charge. Ridiculous. This was an emergency situation. Plus, when we got there, there was no power and no way for us to charge the car for a return trip.

The standard response from EV advocates is to simply buy one with a 400 mile range, but that's quite a lame argument. Our Subaru Outback was the perfect car for the job. Plus, it's sort of rugged, so that was also nice when driving through poor conditions.

[austinp]

Originally Posted by TheVTCGuy

Another state, OREGON, joined California, New York, Massachusetts and Washington to ban the sale of new, gas-only cars by 2035. Of course you can still drive gas only cars after 2035, just can’t purchase new ones in those states. You will still be able to buy new Hybrids, kind of the best of both worlds IMHO.

I think the Ban is sometimes the thing that rubs a lot of people the wrong way. Most Americans don’t like to be forced to do anything. If EV is truly better it should organically overtake the other options and become the industry leader on its own without a ban.

I agree with you. we should have put more resources into hybrid tech. Seems the best of both worlds.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk on

[Star Ferry]

Originally Posted by Krash

It's hard to marvel at the technology when there are significant limitations.

During Hurrican Ian, my wife and I had to go on a rescue mission. We had to drive from Northeast Florida to Fort Meyers to pick up my mother-in-law and bring her home. Approximately 300 miles.

Most EVs wouldn't make it without us having to stop for a lengthy charge. Ridiculous. This was an emergency situation. Plus, when we got there, there was no power and no way for us to charge the car for a return trip.

The standard response from EV advocates is to simply buy one with a 400 mile range, but that's quite a lame argument. Our Subaru Outback was the perfect car for the job. Plus, it's sort of rugged, so that was also nice when driving through poor conditions.

Problem is, hardcore ideological backers of EV don't care about situations like this. They'd consider it a worthwhile sacrifice for the greater good. Further, any super-elite would still have access to a fleet of ICE vehicles in an emergency -- it's only the average Joes who would lack access.

[Krash]

Originally Posted by Star Ferry

Problem is, hardcore ideological backers of EV don't care about situations like this. They'd consider it a worthwhile sacrifice for the greater good. Further, any super-elite would still have access to a fleet of ICE vehicles in an emergency -- it's only the average Joes who would lack access.

100% correct


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[TheVTCGuy]

Originally Posted by austinp

I think the Ban is sometimes the thing that rubs a lot of people the wrong way. Most Americans don’t like to be forced to do anything. If EV is truly better it should organically overtake the other options and become the industry leader on its own without a ban.

I agree with you. we should have put more resources into hybrid tech. Seems the best of both worlds.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk on

You know what, that is an excellent point. I am beginning to think Americans are more upset with the government (practically) MANDATING that they switch to non-ICE vehicles than actually making the transition. I think there will still be significant resistance until EVs equal ICE in all areas, price, range, convenience, but IMHO that will happen.

[Cloudchaser]

Originally Posted by TheVTCGuy

You know what, that is an excellent point. I am beginning to think Americans are more upset with the government (practically) MANDATING that they switch to non-ICE vehicles than actually making the transition. I think there will still be significant resistance until EVs equal ICE in all areas, price, range, convenience, but IMHO that will happen.

We are driving our EV and enjoying it. Beyond the tax breaks, I do enjoy the car and tech.

HOWEVER...

On two different road trips through CA this summer I was reminded of just how far we have to go. During heat waves in the San Joaquin Valley, charging speed wanes, the number of inoperable chargers increases, and warnings from the state about power grid limitations are real.

All of the promise of the future doesn't mean much when I'm melting in Coalinga waiting to use one of the 50% of chargers still operating, while commiserating with other EV drivers about the difficulties. Theatre of the absurd a few times now.

That's the reality; if you're not simply charging at home, the system sucks. CA needs a major power grid overhaul and their answer is to instead overburden the old one via mandate. It's a bit of a clown show at its base.

And now that the political vilification begins of the company with the best charging network, who really knows what's next. Long way to go still.

But rah rah rah EVs in CA!!!

[bondtoys]

Originally Posted by austinp

I think the Ban is sometimes the thing that rubs a lot of people the wrong way. Most Americans don’t like to be forced to do anything. If EV is truly better it should organically overtake the other options and become the industry leader on its own without a ban.

Let‘s be honest.
Without bans, people will go for the cheapest option and the cheapest option is to continue burning oil with all negative consequences for future generations ( who finally pay for our present „cheap“).
Recklessly polluting mother nature was always the „cheapest“ option and some regulations to stop all this was always necessary and will always be.

So we need some rules (bans) to push all the necessary investments into our grids etc. as they don‘t come cheap.

[Star Ferry]

Originally Posted by bondtoys

Let‘s be honest.
Without bans, people will go for the cheapest option and the cheapest option is to continue burning oil with all negative consequences for future generations ( who finally pay for our present „cheap“).
Recklessly polluting mother nature was always the „cheapest“ option and some regulations to stop all this was always necessary and always be.

So we need some rules (bans) to push all the necessary investments into our grids etc. as they don‘t come cheap.

I was okay with this thread until you assumed nature's gender. Now I'm sobbing