Titanium YM

[WilsdorfNDavis]

Originally Posted by Oryx

I would disgaree. If it is truely limited due to that fact that Ti models cannot be made via the normal high volume process used for other models then this may in fact be quite a rare model. Especially if it’s discontinued.

Huh?
Tudor, Omega and every other manufacturer doesn't have a problem manufacturing titanium watches, why would Rolex?

[dukie748]

Originally Posted by WilsdorfNDavis

Huh?
Tudor, Omega and every other manufacturer doesn't have a problem manufacturing titanium watches, why would Rolex?

Because they use unobtanium.

[HiDive]

Originally Posted by Oryx

I would disgaree. If it is truely limited due to that fact that Ti models cannot be made via the normal high volume process used for other models then this may in fact be quite a rare model. Especially if it’s discontinued.

At the end of the day for most luxury goods the value of the item in primarily a function is the perceived rarity relative to the supply / demand dynamic.

If this is only going to be made for a few years then one could argue that the secondary market price is justified.

There is not that much that needs to be done to their normal machining process because of the change in material. Perhaps a slight tool speed change or a different tool material. It is not that big of a deal and would not present that much of an increase in production time. My guess is that there may be some hesitance to explore this new material on the retail market until they can gauge the actual popularity of the watch. However, I would never pay a secondary market price for the watch. If I can get one from a retailer I will purchase one.

[Scholar]

It's a bit bizarre that now, with this model, the YM in two of its configurations looks much more like a real Submariner than the Submariner, due to the non blingy finish, given that the YM seemed to be created to be the blingy alternative to the Submariner!

[Oryx]

Originally Posted by WilsdorfNDavis

Huh?
Tudor, Omega and every other manufacturer doesn't have a problem manufacturing titanium watches, why would Rolex?

Tudor use grade 2 titanium whereas Rolex RLX is a grade 5 and I believe it is a proprietary alloy that is produced in their own foundary.

All of these things impact Rolex’s ability to scale up production which would be at the cost of producing other watches.

[Oryx]

Originally Posted by HiDive

There is not that much that needs to be done to their normal machining process because of the change in material. Perhaps a slight tool speed change or a different tool material. It is not that big of a deal and would not present that much of an increase in production time. My guess is that there may be some hesitance to explore this new material on the retail market until they can gauge the actual popularity of the watch. However, I would never pay a secondary market price for the watch. If I can get one from a retailer I will purchase one.

The issue is switching the tooling between the production cycle which creates down time. Also don’t underestimate how much harder titanium is relative to steel and this does require different tools made with much harder metals. Speak to any watchmaker using titanium and it’s clear that it does add a great deal of complication - more so for someone like Rolex who have a highly efficient and very automated production process.

[HiDive]

Originally Posted by Oryx

The issue is switching the tooling between the production cycle which creates down time. Also don’t underestimate how much harder titanium is relative to steel and this does require different tools made with much harder metals. Speak to any watchmaker using titanium and it’s clear that it does add a great deal of complication - more so for someone like Rolex who have a highly efficient and very automated production process.

I worked as the Plant Engineer in two mills that produced different types of tool steels and Titanium including forging and annealing processes. Also as Plant Engineer in a Machine shop that made sheer knives for the steel industry, so I am well aware of changing materials in a production facility. It is not as big a deal as you make it out to be. A modern production line with state of the art machining takes less time for this type of change in the machining process.

[Oryx]

Great - not sure making sheer knives is a similar process to making watches. But from my understanding the Rolex manufacturing process is fully geared up for steel and precious metal production and not yet for Ti which is still in the exploratory phase.

The other consideration is when working with Ti it is taking valuable production capacity away from other metals which is probably another consideration for Rolex.

I have also visited watch makers that work with Titanium and they do have special tooling and machines to work with the metal and for them it does add some complexity to their production cycle.

[HiDive]

What you are not sure about is how a modern machine shop works. A modern multi axis machining center can store dozens of tools in a loadable magazine and access / change them in seconds. They can also change programs at the control panel in seconds. We machined everything from parts for older machines in our shop to the products we made for sale. Loading a new program from a cad drawing saved on a computer is also done in seconds. None of what we are talking about here is a big deal to change. There is no hand change to the tooling, no hand operation of the machines and very little in the process to make a watchcase or something completely different. And in this case, the product dimensions are the same and the only changes are likely to be the tool material and cutting speeds. This is not a case of making a big shutdown and change over like it would have been 40 years ago. I also did freelance work in setup and repair of machine centers that made a wide variety of product from medical implants to RC car aluminum wheels.
Visiting a machine shop is quite different than working for 12 years running several machine shops and having a degree in Manufacturing Engineering.

[Oryx]

Great insight. Not sure if this is directly relevant to the specific process that Rolex has but interesting nevertheless.

[Scholar]

Originally Posted by HiDive

What you are not sure about is how a modern machine shop works. A modern multi axis machining center can store dozens of tools in a loadable magazine and access / change them in seconds. They can also change programs at the control panel in seconds. We machined everything from parts for older machines in our shop to the products we made for sale. Loading a new program from a cad drawing saved on a computer is also done in seconds. None of what we are talking about here is a big deal to change. There is no hand change to the tooling, no hand operation of the machines and very little in the process to make a watchcase or something completely different. And in this case, the product dimensions are the same and the only changes are likely to be the tool material and cutting speeds. This is not a case of making a big shutdown and change over like it would have been 40 years ago. I also did freelance work in setup and repair of machine centers that made a wide variety of product from medical implants to RC car aluminum wheels.
Visiting a machine shop is quite different than working for 12 years running several machine shops and having a degree in Manufacturing Engineering.

I think a lot of people assume that Rolexes are being made one by one, by hand and "it takes a year to make a Rolex", whereas we know from the Tudor factory tours how automated their process is. (And before someone cuts in with "oh but that's Tudor", there's absolutely no reason Rolex would have less precision equipment on its premium line.)