Electric cars.

[TheVTCGuy]

Originally Posted by Chester01

Not sure why electric which depends heavily on all kinds of metals and other ingredients from many places is preferred over hydrogen. Seems to me, we will trade dependence on a few areas for fossil fuels for dependence on another few for the ingredients to make batteries. They also have yet to figure out the battery life in cold climates.

I agree, Hydrogen seems to be the grail, why they are not dedicating all the resources to that solution instead of (battery powered) EVs.

[904VT]

Originally Posted by TheVTCGuy

I agree, Hydrogen seems to be the grail, why they are not dedicating all the resources to that solution instead of (battery powered) EVs.

I’ve been in research university powered hydrogen fuel cell vehicles hundreds of occasions and they are really nice. Feels just like ICE for those that are nostalgic and want an interactive experience and some soul in their engines.

You should check out the Toyota Mirai Paul. Available for sale in the US. You guys in California have fuel sites, though I think <25 still total.
Locations of fueling sites:

https://www.energy.ca.gov/data-repor...ogen-refueling

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by Chester01

… They also have yet to figure out the battery life in cold climates.

You don’t have to tell me

I leased a plug in hybrid for about 4 years. The manufacturer stated that the car was good for 30km of electric only range.

In the dead of winter on a full charge, I was lucky to get 6km.

In the summer I was getting 22km at the most.

Love the technology but here in our climate and for the kind of driving I do, I have no choice but to use an ICE (no pun intended)

[Blansky]

Originally Posted by brandrea

You don’t have to tell me

I leased a plug in hybrid for about 4 years. The manufacturer stated that the car was good for 30km of electric only range.

In the dead of winter on a full charge, I was lucky to get 6km.

In the summer I was getting 22km at the most.

Love the technology but here in our climate and for the kind of driving I do, I have no choice but to use an ICE (no pun intended)

Climate change is on it's way to help.

We'll get you up to at least 20C every day pretty soon. You hang in there.

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by Blansky

Climate change is on it's way to help.

We'll get you up to at least 20C every day pretty soon. You hang in there.

At least I can save a bundle on south trips I guess.

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[bondtoys]

Originally Posted by brandrea

You don’t have to tell me

I leased a plug in hybrid for about 4 years. The manufacturer stated that the car was good for 30km of electric only range.

In the dead of winter on a full charge, I was lucky to get 6km.

In the summer I was getting 22km at the most.

Love the technology but here in our climate and for the kind of driving I do, I have no choice but to use an ICE (no pun intended)

Sophisticated EVs have a heater for the battery which your Hybrid doesn‘t have. Your example is extreme and has nothing to do with the reality of EVs.

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by bondtoys

Sophisticated EVs have a heater for the battery which your Hybrid doesn‘t have. Your example is extreme and has nothing to do with the reality of EVs.

I confess to not knowing much about them.

It was 2017, BMW 330e.

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[904VT]

Originally Posted by bondtoys

Sophisticated EVs have a heater for the battery which your Hybrid doesn‘t have. Your example is extreme and has nothing to do with the reality of EVs.

I believe MG had issues with their heaters and they didn’t work as expected?

Also, some manufactures recommend not using cabin heat in the Winter to persevere battery. Still a long ways to go.

What powers the battery heaters?

I haven’t heard of any manufactures producing battery coolers for the high temps though.

[TheDude]

Originally Posted by 904VT

I believe MG had issues with their heaters and they didn’t work as expected?

Also, some manufactures recommend not using cabin heat in the Winter to persevere battery. Still a long ways to go.

What powers the battery heaters?

I haven’t heard of any manufactures producing battery coolers for the high temps though.

It’s a non-issue. Also, with the adoption of heat pumps, the creation of cabin heat isn’t so power hungry. EVs also cool the battery in hot weather. It’s all powered from the massive battery. Yes, all of that is a net negative but it’s really a non-issue.


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[zengineer]

Originally Posted by 904VT

I believe MG had issues with their heaters and they didn’t work as expected?

Also, some manufactures recommend not using cabin heat in the Winter to persevere battery. Still a long ways to go.

What powers the battery heaters?

I haven’t heard of any manufactures producing battery coolers for the high temps though.

Many EVs have cooling systems for the batteries. Heat management, ventilation, fire containment, protection from road debris , EMI/RFI shielding...all part of the battery systems. I'm involved with at work. It's really still in it's infancy, everyone is approaching it differently.

[bondtoys]

Originally Posted by Chester01

Not sure why electric which depends heavily on all kinds of metals and other ingredients from many places is preferred over hydrogen. Seems to me, we will trade dependence on a few areas for fossil fuels for dependence on another few for the ingredients to make batteries. They also have yet to figure out the battery life in cold climates.

Hydrogen is a waste of energy.
We are worried about if the electric energy is enough to charge our EVs and are fantasizing about „green hydrogen“ with the assumption that electric Power is infinitely available.
Why not using the energy that is needed to split H from O2 and charge many many EVs instead?

[yachty 1]

Definitely not an expert in this field but how many byproducts are derived from gas? Unfortunately it's here to stay. I live in NY right near the power plants that produce the most electricity for NY right near Niagra Falls and we lose power when it's to hot outside, as does California. We are many years away from that dream in my opinion.

[Malum]

Where do all those old batteries go ?

[JoeJoeBobo]

Originally Posted by Malum

Where do all those old batteries go ?

Saving the planet through toxic landfill. Maybe Elon can ship ‘em to space.

[Easy E]

Originally Posted by Malum

Where do all those old batteries go ?

Nowhere good, that’s for sure.

Two follow up questions:
1. What is the cost to replace a dead cell?
2. When you figure out question #1 costs more than the car is worth in 8-12 yrs what happens to the car, where will it go?

[TheDude]

Originally Posted by Easy E

Nowhere good, that’s for sure.

Two follow up questions:
1. What is the cost to replace a dead cell?
2. When you figure out question #1 costs more than the car is worth in 8-12 yrs what happens to the car, where will it go?

Tesla recycles their packs/cells. The rare earth elements can be reclaimed and manufactured into new cells.

Those following this space know that this isn’t an inevitable landfill situation.

https://www.tesla.com/support/sustainability-recycling


As a Tesla owner, I personally wouldn’t keep one past the battery warranty term. Batteries are evolving to last longer - there’s a concept called the “million mile battery” - a lofty goal of making batteries that can hold up for very long service life.

The areas in which the technology is continuously improving:

Capacity (density per cell)
Longevity
Charge speed
Weight (function of cell density vs designed aggregate pack capacity)

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[KokPingBalzac]

Originally Posted by Malum

Where do all those old batteries go ?

There is significant investment being made in EV battery manufacturing, solar panel manufacturing, EV manufacturing, semiconductors, green hydrogen projects, decarbonization efforts led by companies like occidental petroleum, smaller scale nuclear energy, "circular economy" like producing natural gas from landfill waste. Just saw an article the other day of how Dow chemical and waste management are partnering up to try to create ways to recycle crappy types of plastic like the ones used in shopping bags and gatorade bottles. Pretty cool things happening right now at the intersections of the technology, industrials, and energy sectors that will create a lot of specialized engineering jobs and higher quality manufacturing jobs. Very exciting new industries that are in the early innings of a long long growth cycle.

Many of these batteries will be recycled over time so that's good that they'll be able so salvage some of the raw materials in them and dispose of toxic stuff properly. Just saw an article today on axios announcing a new $3.5B EV battery manufacturing and recycling plant to be built in South Carolina. The sunbelt/rust belt is getting lots of investment in these types of projects- I have seen at least 4 other big multi billion dollar renewables projects announced just in the past month or two.

I just ordered a new Ford Mach-E Premium in Vapor Blue Metallic. Extended range AWD... very excited to take delivery in 6 months just in time to be done with winter! I prefer the lines of this car to the teslas and when I test drove it the handling, braking felt very similar to my current BMW SUV.

[TheVTCGuy]

Yet countries continue to set deadlines for the end of ICE only powered vehicles (Hybrids will still be around), Car manufacturers continue to phase out ICE only vehicles (I think it’s Porsche, that will be 100% EV in ten years) and sales of EVs have almost doubled year over year. Right now they are (something like) 6%, but the rate is increasing exponentially, companies continue to pour literally billions of dollars in to EV development.

Of course, YOU are smarter then all these people and very soon they will just say: “Oh, forget it, we were just kidding, we’ll go back to 100% ICE.”

You can hate all you want, bring up all the challenges (and agreed there are severe challenges, there were also a lot transitioning from horses to automobiles), bury your head in the sand. The future is inevitable and approaching. EVs (or hydrogen) will be the norm and ICE vehicles will be a novelty. Get over it.

[austinp]

The tail is wagging the dog.


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[East Bay Rider]

Trying to picture old, dead Teslas and their ilk parked alongside barns surrounded by weeds and scrap iron because remember not everyone lives in a city.

[RichardBartlett]

The new sodium based batteries have 4x the energy density of lithium.
Early days but the future is fast approaching. The EV industry has been starved of funding and brains for over 100 years. That's changed and money is being spent on R&D.
The issue is not the technology but the Luddite mentality desperate for it to fail rather than keeping abreast of developments

When mobile phones started making a call was the ultimate goal that's it nothing more to offer.
Now its a given and it's the other phone applications and technology that attracts
why do people base EV thinking on today's cars, can they not comprehend we are only at the start and in 5;10;20; 50 years who knows how far battery tech will have reached?

looking back isn't the way forward

[JasoninDenver]

My estimated wait time for a BMW ix is 8-12 months.

Sure wish the people ahead of me did not want an e.v. But, alas……

[joa]

one thing is for certain, the world can't survive billions of people driving around in gasoline based vehicles much longer,

EVs sound like a good intermediary (transitory) solution for the next few years

as much as i want to cruise around in a 911, i fear my next car will have to be a Taycan. my ideal scenario though would be 2022er 911 with e-motor inside...

[East Bay Rider]

If only there was an inexpensive, environmentally friendly, easily replenished fuel source.



https://www.resilience.org/stories/2...ood-fuel-tank/

https://www.semissourian.com/blogs/flynch/entry/68367

[GradyPhilpott]

Mercedes AA Class

https://iplayerhd.com/player/video/d...-cff7e6bcd493/

[INC]

[RichardBartlett]

personally can't wait for self driving cars.
sitting in the back on my laptop or watching the Sopranos again whilst the car does all the boring stuff.
what's not to like!

I know you all think you're Al Unser Junior
but statistics show you're not.
Go ona highway and hit cruise control, then watch how badly people drive by not being able to regulate their speed because they are too easily distracted. Self drive will greatly improve traffic flow and management and journey times will be less stressful and reduced

[East Bay Rider]

Anyone remember the cargo ship (Felicity Ace) full of EVs that sank off the coast of Portugal because it was burning so hot that it melted through the hull?

https://insurancemarinenews.com/insu...damage-estate/

[TheDude]

Originally Posted by East Bay Rider

Anyone remember the cargo ship (Felicity Ace) full of EVs that sank off the coast of Portugal because it was burning so hot that it melted through the hull?

https://insurancemarinenews.com/insu...damage-estate/

No, but I remember some high school chemistry.


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[zengineer]

Originally Posted by East Bay Rider

Anyone remember the cargo ship (Felicity Ace) full of EVs that sank off the coast of Portugal because it was burning so hot that it melted through the hull?

https://insurancemarinenews.com/insu...damage-estate/

Know what else burns really well? A full tank of gasoline.

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