Can I offer the AD’s salesperson a cash “Tip” on the side for helping me get my watch

[Moonwatcher]

Originally Posted by bluestreak

Neither statement is true. Bribery and blackmail are crimes.

That’s exactly what i meant.

[amphr1]

Originally Posted by ryanbush

Can you explain the illegality of this?

It's not illegal if you tip them for a nice conversation. But if you say here is $5k, I expect you to have a Panda for me in my next visit, then it's a bribe. And if you don't say that, we'll then. I'm sure you'll be higher on the list, but still years away from getting anything. Just to be clear, I'm no expert. But even if it's not illegal, it sure sounds unfair and unethical to me.

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[brandrea]

I certainly hope the cops don’t want to get involved in “bribery” cases involving Rolex watch purchases … I think they have better things to do

[james_turk]

Originally Posted by Minkus

I gave my AD a bottle of $300 whiskey with a $500 steakhouse gift card inside... I was sold another watch on my list shortly thereafter.

How did you get a gift card inside a bottle of whiskey? Impressive. Didn't it get wet?

[zengineer]

Originally Posted by amphr1

It's not illegal if you tip them for a nice conversation. But if you say here is $5k, I expect you to have a Panda for me in my next visit, then it's a bribe. And if you don't say that, we'll then. I'm sure you'll be higher on the list, but still years away from getting anything. Just to be clear, I'm no expert. But even if it's not illegal, it sure sounds unfair and unethical to me.

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It is not illegal to tip a watch salesperson any more than it is to tip your barber.. They aren't judges, customs agents, Senators or building inspectors. It's tacky and scummy and sad and probably somehow against the Rolex AD agreement all at the same time but hardly against the law.

The system today is that ADs choose who they want to sell to (as they should be able to do). For high demand watches it is often tied to buying high mark-up jewelry. It's no more unfair or unethical than a private golf club that won't let me just show up and play 9 holes.

[HHIslander]

Originally Posted by brandrea

I certainly hope the cops don’t want to get involved in “bribery” cases involving Rolex watch purchases … I think they have better things to do

It may be technically illegal, but no one is going to jail. There was a relevant case in 2020 with Ferrari where an exec took $2.8m from buyers to get moved up the line. The exec ended up going to jail for tax evasion (not bribery) and no buyer was ever charged. To my knowledge, no buyer in US has ever been charged for bribery in a situation involving a retail consumer buying a retail product (not real estate).

https://www.businessinsider.com/form...parlato-2020-9

[JonnyOld Boy]

There is no "bribe" taking place here. What would be happening is "a request for an extra service, chargeable". The buyer is breaking zero laws and is not trying to "bribe" anyone. However, the SA may indeed be breaking criminal law depending on the contract of employment and any regional/country transparency laws if accepted. If the buyer asks if there is a chargeable service for speeding up the watch purchase and is informed there is not, then any further request would indeed cross into waters that could be deemed criminal. There is no law against asking to pay more for something to get it quicker, but there are laws against corrupt transactions.

[Moondoggy]

Originally Posted by amphr1

It's not illegal if you tip them for a nice conversation. But if you say here is $5k, I expect you to have a Panda for me in my next visit, then it's a bribe. And if you don't say that, we'll then. I'm sure you'll be higher on the list, but still years away from getting anything. Just to be clear, I'm no expert. But even if it's not illegal, it sure sounds unfair and unethical to me.

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It’s like prostitution where illegal, the client is not paying for sex they are paying for the time spent together if there is mutual attraction well that is not illegal.

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by HHIslander

It may be technically illegal, but no one is going to jail. There was a relevant case in 2020 with Ferrari where an exec took $2.8m from buyers to get moved up the line. The exec ended up going to jail for tax evasion (not bribery) and no buyer was ever charged. To my knowledge, no buyer in US has ever been charged for bribery in a situation involving a retail consumer buying a retail product (not real estate).

https://www.businessinsider.com/form...parlato-2020-9

Interest article thank for sharing.

I was half joking / being sarcastic I think it’s funny to think of the lengths people will go to, to buy a wrist watch


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[padi56]

Originally Posted by brandrea

Interest article thank for sharing.

I was half joking / being sarcastic I think it’s funny to think of the lengths people will go to, to buy a wrist watch


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Have to agree Brian would rather dig my eyes out with a stick than offer anyone 5k extra just hopefully to buy a mass produced watch.

[RyanJ]

Originally Posted by PeteNYC13

A - Nobody at Rolex is coming to your house and making anyone buy a Rolex
B - They are a corporation and not stupid, they see the insane $$$ that people are WILLING to spend for used Rolex or Classic Rolex and want in on it
C - Sometimes an older version of something is worth more than that newer version (maybe visit a car site or high end auction now and then)
D - Have you ever heard of a Car Dealer offering CPO, this isn't a new thing.
E- See A, don't buy it if you don't want to.

How dare a corporation try to maximize revenue and shareholder value.

This wasn't about Rolex being bad. They can do what they want. This was about customers who will do anything Rolex tells them to.

[GrailTime]

Originally Posted by Desibaba

what if I offered the sales lady a cash “Tip” of $5k on the side for “Expediting” this process for me. I have no problem with discretely making this offer to her. And that $5k is of course negotiable depending on her needs.

I am looking to purchase a new panda from an AD. I have zero Rolex AD purchase history and refuse to buy products I don’t want or need just to make myself eligible for a Panda.

I very much doubt that would be accepted by the sales assistant.

If word got out, the AD may lose their contract with Rolex.

Plus, my understanding is that watches like the Daytona have to be signed off by store management and even Rolex. How would they justify giving you one with no spend history?

[rufio0811]

If you're going to blow $5k, just buy a Tudor/Brietling/Omega/Nomos from this AD and flip it. Worst case scenario you get some of that money back, best case you profit, you add to your purchase history and you help that associate out with commission.

[KatGirl]

Originally Posted by GrailTime

I very much doubt that would be accepted by the sales assistant.

If word got out, the AD may lose their contract with Rolex.

Plus, my understanding is that watches like the Daytona have to be signed off by store management and even Rolex. How would they justify giving you one with no spend history?

I thought Rolex’s official stance is that all customers are equal and there should be no spend history requirement. In fact, they frown on that practice. As for them being involved in allocations, probably not for a Daytona, but perhaps for very limited production models, like the puzzle dial DD.

Kat


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[881]

You’d be better bribing the manager or owner, best of luck

[messikens]

Originally Posted by padi56

Well that's up to the person willing to pay, myself would never applaud any seller charging 10k over retail.But today Rolex watches have become little more than ££€€$$ object things and little more, now sold to the highest bidder willing to pay.

I was concerned the canned response wouldn't come any longer but thankfully I stand corrected and can now sleep at night knowing that the record is still broken! 🥹

[bluestreak]

Originally Posted by KatGirl

I thought Rolex’s official stance is that all customers are equal and there should be no spend history requirement. In fact, they frown on that practice. As for them being involved in allocations, probably not for a Daytona, but perhaps for very limited production models, like the puzzle dial DD.

Kat


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Maybe they say this, but no high end business operates in this way. Nor should it. Loyal customers typically get consideration over people that walk in off the street. If I was a longtime customer of some business, I’d certainly want it.

[dannyboy123]

BwaaHaaaHaaaaa

[Rolexatlast]

Oh, no. Not this topic again.

I think that last time we generally agreed that paying money to a sales assistant (not the business itself) to get a watch sooner, was a bribe.

To recap. Different countries have different laws on what value the payment would need to be to be considered a bribe.

Different cultures / countries have different opinions on the morality of paying bribes.

In the UK, paying £5k to a SA would be a bribe, and would be illegal. It is also an offence for a UK-connected person to bribe anywhere in the world. The crime of bribery is described in Section 1 as occurring when a person offers, gives or promises to give a "financial or other advantage" to another individual in exchange for "improperly" performing a "relevant function or activity". Section 2 covers the offence of being bribed, which is defined as requesting, accepting or agreeing to accept such an advantage, in exchange for improperly performing such a function or activity.

Penalties are a maximum of 10 years' imprisonment, along with an unlimited fine, and the potential for the confiscation of property.

Whether or not someone would be prosecuted by the police, or privately prosecuted by their employer, is a matter of opinion. But the possibility exists.

[Nairn1980]

Originally Posted by KatGirl

I thought Rolex’s official stance is that all customers are equal and there should be no spend history requirement. In fact, they frown on that practice. As for them being involved in allocations, probably not for a Daytona, but perhaps for very limited production models, like the puzzle dial DD.

Kat


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Rolex just manufacture the watches. They leave it up to the ADs how to allocate, and don’t (and can’t) get involved in that.
No matter what romantic visions Rolex may have, all customers are not equal when it comes to watch allocation.

[JonnyOld Boy]

Originally Posted by KatGirl

I thought Rolex’s official stance is that all customers are equal and there should be no spend history requirement. In fact, they frown on that practice. As for them being involved in allocations, probably not for a Daytona, but perhaps for very limited production models, like the puzzle dial DD.

Kat


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Sooooo Wrong. All customers are NOT equal. If you are rich , you get what you ask for , simple as.

[bluestreak]

Originally Posted by Rolexatlast

Oh, no. Not this topic again.

I think that last time we generally agreed that paying money to a sales assistant (not the business itself) to get a watch sooner, was a bribe.

To recap. Different countries have different laws on what value the payment would need to be to be considered a bribe.

Different cultures / countries have different opinions on the morality of paying bribes.

In the UK, paying £5k to a SA would be a bribe, and would be illegal. It is also an offence for a UK-connected person to bribe anywhere in the world. The crime of bribery is described in Section 1 as occurring when a person offers, gives or promises to give a "financial or other advantage" to another individual in exchange for "improperly" performing a "relevant function or activity". Section 2 covers the offence of being bribed, which is defined as requesting, accepting or agreeing to accept such an advantage, in exchange for improperly performing such a function or activity.

Penalties are a maximum of 10 years' imprisonment, along with an unlimited fine, and the potential for the confiscation of property.

Whether or not someone would be prosecuted by the police, or privately prosecuted by their employer, is a matter of opinion. But the possibility exists.

There is zero chance that anyone would go to jail for paying money to a SA to get a watch. Zero.


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[PeteNYC13]

Originally Posted by RyanJ

This wasn't about Rolex being bad. They can do what they want. This was about customers who will do anything Rolex tells them to.

oops, got it.
I that case, you are correct! Let's see what they come up with next!

[kopi-c]

Originally Posted by RyanJ

It never ceases to amaze me how many people will do anything to get a Rolex.

Rolex implemented the CPO program to show you just how unworthy you are. No, you cannot buy a new watch at MSRP but here is an overpriced used model that is a few years old. This is what you and your money is worth.

I can just imagine this in the boardroom:

Stan: We need more ways of fleecing people. Those secondary sellers are taking all of our cash! Running a "not for profit" ain't cheap..

Jim: Wait, people still believe the not for profit...nevermind.. I have an idea! Why don't we take old watches, run them through the car wash, do a service check, and then sell them as Pre-owned?

Stan: That is a great idea but it isn't enough. What if we called them "Certified" and then priced them thousands of dollars over the msrp of new ones? Will the fanboys go for that?

John: Hmm.. Well, let's really spread the word how safe it is to buy from an AD as they are in the business of building relationships with their customers and you are just $$$ to the secondary market which is also just full of thieves!

Stan: That could work but won't people see through our ruse? I mean selling old for higher prices than new?

John: HAHAHA... Who cares? They will do whatever we tell them. They can go buy an Omega or JLC if they want to pay MSRP.

Stan: You are right. Do it!

This.

[vatey]

May be $100-$200 to the security guard if he did not unlock the door for you, you could not tip SA and you would not get the watch.

[thenewrick]

Nothing wrong with asking the SA if they would accept a gift. If they told you they'd get you a watch faster and their supervisor found out they'd probably get fired. Nothing illegal going on of course. I tip people who aren't supposed to be tipped from time to time but I never expect anything in return.

I wonder if people would just prefer to pay ADM prices for new Rolex or if they'd be even more angry than the current situation. Because the ADM on new models would be a lot higher than CPO. Instead of waiting on a list for a $10k Submariner you can buy it anytime new from the AD for $21k, CPO for $18k, or $17k used from a Grey dealer. Would that make people happy?

[zengineer]

Originally Posted by Rolexatlast

Oh, no. Not this topic again.

I think that last time we generally agreed that paying money to a sales assistant (not the business itself) to get a watch sooner, was a bribe.

To recap. Different countries have different laws on what value the payment would need to be to be considered a bribe.

Different cultures / countries have different opinions on the morality of paying bribes.

In the UK, paying £5k to a SA would be a bribe, and would be illegal. It is also an offence for a UK-connected person to bribe anywhere in the world. The crime of bribery is described in Section 1 as occurring when a person offers, gives or promises to give a "financial or other advantage" to another individual in exchange for "improperly" performing a "relevant function or activity". Section 2 covers the offence of being bribed, which is defined as requesting, accepting or agreeing to accept such an advantage, in exchange for improperly performing such a function or activity.

Penalties are a maximum of 10 years' imprisonment, along with an unlimited fine, and the potential for the confiscation of property.

Whether or not someone would be prosecuted by the police, or privately prosecuted by their employer, is a matter of opinion. But the possibility exists.

So slipping a maire d a $20 to get a good table at a restaurant is against your laws?

[4 Aussies]

Originally Posted by zengineer

So slipping a maire d a $20 to get a good table at a restaurant is against your laws?

Bingo!! His laws, not yours or mine!!

[Rolexatlast]

Originally Posted by 4 Aussies

Bingo!! His laws, not yours or mine!!

Technically, yes, it’s against our UK law as there is no de minimis, although it would never be prosecuted. But it would allow restaurants to dismiss their staff for illegal activities.

I cannot comment on your laws. Every country has its own tolerance and acceptance of bribery.

There was a lot of debate when the UK law was introduced, as bribery is expected in many countries, and there was a fear this would lead to UK companies being unable to compete for foreign contracts.

[Gwai]

Originally Posted by Rolexatlast

There was a lot of debate when the UK law was introduced, as bribery is expected in many countries, and there was a fear this would lead to UK companies being unable to compete for foreign contracts.

The result: UK citizens are out of the game for getting good tables at restaurants all over the world.Thanks a bunch, lawmakers!

Cheers
Marc