116509 dial swap question

[Devildog]

Bit of background - I'm seriously considering going all in and acquiring a WG Daytona (full bracelet).

Its a full set, a few years old but in in fantastic condition. Bezel looks brand new, case is in fantastic shape. The seller is 100%. Everything checks out and the price is good.

The only thing making me hesitate is the dial so I'd be looking at a dial change. Ideally I'd want the white panda with the lumed arabics.

I'll contract Roles St James to check of course, and I know the dials can be sourced elsewhere, but before I do, has anyone done similar?

The watch is from 2012. I believe the dial I'd want was available around that time?

Cheers in advance for any insights

[watchvert]

Rolex has become a bit funny about dial swaps over the past 3-4 years. I phoned St James's about other watches and they regularly change their policies in relation to this. Which dial does that Daytona currently have?

[Devildog]

Originally Posted by watchvert

Rolex has become a bit funny about dial swaps over the past 3-4 years. I phoned St James's about other watches and they regularly change their policies in relation to this. Which dial does that Daytona currently have?

Black racing with WG arabics currently.

[Chute]

My guess is that your best bet is to source the dial you want and have a watchmaker (but not Rolex) change it and do a service. You may be able to then sell the less desirable dial. Another thing to consider is making sure the hands match. I think the black racing has some red hands and I’m not sure if the white one had those too.

[Big Tex Rolex]

Are you thinking you will find a Dial, and have it put in ?

Or, will you try to get a RSC to change it ?

I’m curious whether RSC will do it … I guess it may depend on what the original dial choices were.

I’m currently looking for an older 116519, or 116509, and am wondering what the original dials were for each model.

By 2012 I think available Arabic Numeral Dials were Black, Gray, Silver, White … but I’m not sure which was offered / available from Rolex for the 116509 or 116519 … or what was “standard” / available for the 116520.

My research of the used watch market has been no help … there are so many watches with switched dials, that I just don’t know what was original.

If RSC will only put on the watch your interested in an original sold watch / dial combination, then this may be important to you too.

If anyone knows … what were the original Arabic Numeral Dials available for the …
116509
116519
116520
???

I know the 116519 came with the Gray Dial, for example … I don’t know if you could buy it from Rolex with any of the other Arabic Numeral Dials.

[Devildog]

Originally Posted by Big Tex Rolex

Are you thinking you will find a Dial, and have it put in ?

Or, will you try to get a RSC to change it ?

I’m curious whether RSC will do it … I guess it may depend on what the original dial choices were.

I’m currently looking for an older 116519, or 116509, and am wondering what the original dials were for each model.

By 2012 I think available Arabic Numeral Dials were Black, Gray, Silver, White … but I’m not sure which was offered / available from Rolex for the 116509 or 116519 … or what was “standard” / available for the 116520.

My research of the used watch market has been no help … there are so many watches with switched dials, that I just don’t know what was original.

If RSC will only put on the watch your interested in an original sold watch / dial combination, then this may be important to you too.

If anyone knows … what were the original Arabic Numeral Dials available for the …
116509
116519
116520
???

I know the 116519 came with the Gray Dial, for example … I don’t know if you could buy it from Rolex with any of the other Arabic Numeral Dials.

I'm thinking of getting RSC to change it - if they will.

The dial I want was available for that reference. Contacting RSC today - will let you know what they say.

[1William]

Thinking of a dial change in a YG Sky-Dweller and contacted the RSC in Dallas. They were very nice and told me they would not change the dial until the watch was out of warranty, 5 years. Then the dial could be changed to a dial that was offered with that model for the year of production. A full service was also required. All in it was around 3k for the dial change and the service. Don't know if I will do it but I have a little time to decide before the warranty is out.

[Big Tex Rolex]

Originally Posted by Devildog

I'm thinking of getting RSC to change it - if they will.

The dial I want was available for that reference. Contacting RSC today - will let you know what they say.

Thank you … I look forward to seeing what you find out.

This photo is from the 2008 Rolex Catalog (a photo someone sent me in another thread), for reference … an 116519 with Gray Arabic Dial on Alligator Strap.

My research has found …

116519 … White Gold … Leather Strap … Dial choices ???

116509 … White Gold … White Gold Metal Bracelet … Dial choices ???

116520 … Stainless Steel … SS Bracelet … Dial choices ???

(Dial choices as they pertain to the Arabic Numeral Dials)




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[Devildog]

Originally Posted by Big Tex Rolex

Thank you … I look forward to seeing what you find out.

This photo is from the 2008 Rolex Catalog (a photo someone sent me in another thread), for reference … an 116519 with Gray Arabic Dial on Alligator Strap.

My research has found …

116519 … White Gold … Leather Strap … Dial choices ???

116509 … White Gold … White Gold Metal Bracelet … Dial choices ???

116520 … Stainless Steel … SS Bracelet … Dial choices ???

(Dial choices as they pertain to the Arabic Numeral Dials)




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Emailed today - will keep you posted.

I can say, however that the 116520 ss/ss was never available with an Arabic numeral dial

[fskywalker]

Originally Posted by Devildog

Bit of background - I'm seriously considering going all in and acquiring a WG Daytona (full bracelet).

Its a full set, a few years old but in in fantastic condition. Bezel looks brand new, case is in fantastic shape. The seller is 100%. Everything checks out and the price is good.

The only thing making me hesitate is the dial so I'd be looking at a dial change. Ideally I'd want the white panda with the lumed arabics.

I'll contract Roles St James to check of course, and I know the dials can be sourced elsewhere, but before I do, has anyone done similar?

The watch is from 2012. I believe the dial I'd want was available around that time?

Cheers in advance for any insights

Guess this is the one you want? Had it on my gone 116520, my favorite Daytona dial


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[*M5]

Originally Posted by fskywalker

Guess this is the one you want? Had it on my gone 116520, my favorite Daytona dial


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Any pics on your 116520? TIA

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[Big Tex Rolex]

Originally Posted by Devildog

Emailed today - will keep you posted.

I can say, however that the 116520 ss/ss was never available with an Arabic numeral dial

Thank you … through some more research today I suspected that … that the 116520 was not offered with Arabic Dials … that those I’ve seen, with Arabic Dial, were added after purchase.

As I’m sure you know, there was an Arabic Dial(s) offered in some earlier Daytonas (2000-2007?) …

then it looks like the Luminova / larger font / Arabic Dials (nicknamed the “Racing Dial”) were produced 2008-2015 (+/-).

Again through my research of older sales adds, it looks like both the 116509 and the 116519 were both available OEM with all 4 colored dials … Black; Slate; Silver; White/Black (Panda).

It appears there was a lot of modifying with hands also … stock hands were …

Black … Red Seconds / Red Subdials

Silver … Red Seconds / Red Subdials

Slate … Silver Seconds / Red Subdials

White / Black … Silver Seconds / Silver Subdials

Here is an example from my research …




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[Big Tex Rolex]

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[Devildog]

Originally Posted by fskywalker

Guess this is the one you want? Had it on my gone 116520, my favorite Daytona dial


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Yup, that's the one

[Devildog]

Originally Posted by Big Tex Rolex

Thank you … through some more research today I suspected that … that the 116520 was not offered with Arabic Dials … that those I’ve seen, with Arabic Dial, were added after purchase.

As I’m sure you know, there was an Arabic Dial(s) offered in some earlier Daytonas (2000-2007?) …

then it looks like the Luminova / larger font / Arabic Dials (nicknamed the “Racing Dial”) were produced 2008-2015 (+/-).

Again through my research of older sales adds, it looks like both the 116509 and the 116519 were both available OEM with all 4 colored dials … Black; Slate; Silver; White/Black (Panda).

It appears there was a lot of modifying with hands also … stock hands were …

Black … Red Seconds / Red Subdials

Silver … Red Seconds / Red Subdials

Slate … Silver Seconds / Red Subdials

White / Black … Silver Seconds / Silver Subdials

Here is an example from my research …




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[fskywalker]

Originally Posted by *M5

Any pics on your 116520? TIA

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Had it with the OEM red hands from the meteorite model; the ceramic bezel was aftermarket


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[Big Tex Rolex]

Edit of myself …

It appears that there were several versions of Daytona watches with Arabic Dials produced ~2000-2015, including the 116509, 116519, Two Tone, Yellow Gold, Everose Gold … but there were only 2 “Racing Dials” … the White/Black Arabic and the Slate Arabic.

The other Arabic Dials were a smaller font, and “non-lumed”.

The Silver Dial and Black Dial were the smaller font / non-lumed variety.

There were also versions of the White Dial and Slate Dial (I think the earlier / first versions of these dials) that were the smaller font / non-lumed version.


This really good information from our fellow forum member, GreatCircle, from another thread I started on Racing Dials …

The only “unofficial official” two racing dials are the ones with big lumed numbers, introduced in 2008 or 2009 initially for reference 116519 only!
116519 is the whitegold Daytona on leather strap.
A few years later factory delivered 116509’s (full whitegold bracelet) with these dials were spotted first at AD windows, and also dial swaps for both 116509/19 were allowed. During the first years in Europe rules for AD’s were not very strict resulting in loads of steel modified 116520 Daytona’s with racing dials as well.

Panda had dial catalogue name :white/black arab
The grey one is called slate arab

Racing dial name originated in the German RLX forums.

[Big Tex Rolex]

Confirmation from my AD today … of something we already suspected / knew …

“If you alter anything, Rolex won’t recognize it as authentic. They won’t sell you anything that did not come original with that watch.”

In my case, I was asking my AD to order for me Red Hands, that did not come original to the 116519 White/Black dial … but did come on other dials.

I know the White/Black dial came stock with the 116519 … I don’t know if the White/Black dial was ever offered OEM with the 116509 … and if it was not, then my guess is they (Rolex) won’t put a White/Black dial on an 116509.

It could have been, at sometime, that the White/Black dial was OEM for an 116509 … I don’t know … I have not been able to find an example of an 116509 with the White/Black “Racing Dial”, where the card or papers matched the watch … making me THINK that people were swapping 116519 dials into their 116509’s, maybe, at the time of purchase … something that I remember being commonplace (swapping dials) … now, for some reason, seen as a crime.

I’m from the mindset of, make Your watch the way You like it.

Though the White/Black dial did come with Red Hands … no matter what it costs, and no matter what people think of me (including Rolex) … I’m going to have someone put Red Hands on my White/Black dial 116519.

[clubrcr]

Would all of the Daytona 6 digit model number dials be interchangeable? In other words, does it matter if it originally came from a PM, TT or SS?

[fskywalker]

Originally Posted by clubrcr

Would all of the Daytona 6 digit model number dials be interchangeable? In other words, does it matter if it originally came from a PM, TT or SS?

In terms of fit think they are all interchangeable but the SS and WG models would have silver markers while the TT will have YG or RG markers


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[Big Tex Rolex]

Originally Posted by Big Tex Rolex

Though the White/Black dial did come with Red Hands … no matter what it costs, and no matter what people think of me (including Rolex) … I’m going to have someone put Red Hands on my White/Black dial 116519.

I meant to say … the White/Black dial (“Racing Dial / Panda Dial”) did NOT come with Red Hands … it came with Silver colored hands.

[GreatCircle]

I have had quit some experience with Daytona dial-swaps. Rest assured the 116509 came factory with both Panda and Slate Arab dial as well, not only the leather strap 116519 whitegold version! Red hands on a Panda can look sporty, but also something just is not right and the look gets boring. Rolex never did this for a reason. Think about it well, and make sure you both source the silver hands as well as red hands so you can always change. Keep in mind the tiny chrono hands are pressed in very hard from the factory, they can break easily during a dial swap when the watchmaker has less experience with Daytona dial swaps….

Do whatever you like, and forget what the Rolex parts-police wants you to do….

Or go nuts and do this…. ;)

[Big Tex Rolex]

Originally Posted by GreatCircle

I have had quit some experience with Daytona dial-swaps. Rest assured the 116509 came factory with both Panda and Slate Arab dial as well, not only the leather strap 116519 whitegold version! Red hands on a Panda can look sporty, but also something just is not right and the look gets boring. Rolex never did this for a reason. Think about it well, and make sure you both source the silver hands as well as red hands so you can always change. Keep in mind the tiny chrono hands are pressed in very hard from the factory, they can break easily during a dial swap when the watchmaker has less experience with Daytona dial swaps….

Do whatever you like, and forget what the Rolex parts-police wants you to do….

Or go nuts and do this…. ;)

Thank you for this information on the 116509.

Thanks for your thoughts on Red Hands on a Panda Dial … I have battled with this. I have seen one example where just the Seconds Hand was switched to Red, which looked good.

One thing in favor of keeping the hands Silver … the Red Hands are very hard to find.

Your mod is a beauty … that combination looks great with the leather strap.

SO MANY watch / dial / strap combinations Rolex could do / should do … in my mind.

[Big Tex Rolex]

I found this through my research … said to be from the 2013 Rolex Catalog.

My interpretation is that these were the Dials OEM for the Watch models listed … at least for the 2013 season.

116509 … Silver or Black

116519 … White/Black or Slate




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[scooba]

I have found kings hill service centre very helpful . What I do know is you can’t always have what you want .

116518 full gold black dial , you fancy green it isn’t happening.

SS sky dweller with white or black dial swap to Blue is a No !

SS Daytona dial swap Black to White Nope.

Platinum Daytona std dial swap it for with Baguette dial is ok ��

White Gold 116719black dial swap to blue dial and keep the old black dial is ok ��.

Yellow Gold 116718 black dial swap to green and keep the old dial is ok ��

[Big Tex Rolex]

Originally Posted by scooba

I have found kings hill service centre very helpful . What I do know is you can’t always have what you want .

116518 full gold black dial , you fancy green it isn’t happening.

SS sky dweller with white or black dial swap to Blue is a No !

SS Daytona dial swap Black to White Nope.

Platinum Daytona std dial swap it for with Baguette dial is ok ��

White Gold 116719black dial swap to blue dial and keep the old black dial is ok ��.

Yellow Gold 116718 black dial swap to green and keep the old dial is ok ��

I’m sure soon, Rolex is going to tell us … we know by serial number what dial came in your watch, and that’s the only dial we will replace into it … no swapping, even if another dial was available for that model, e.g., if you bought a Black Dial 116500LN, you won’t be able to have Rolex put in a White Dial, ever.

Seems they’re headed that way.

[rolex_pl85]

RSC WILL allow dial swaps but from recent experience the below must be met.

1) Watch must be older than 5 years old
2) Dial swap must be done along with a full service.
3) The dial your swapping to must have been available as an option at the time of production for your particular model watch.

If you meed these they should swap it for you.

[fskywalker]

Originally Posted by GreatCircle

I have had quit some experience with Daytona dial-swaps. Rest assured the 116509 came factory with both Panda and Slate Arab dial as well, not only the leather strap 116519 whitegold version! Red hands on a Panda can look sporty, but also something just is not right and the look gets boring. Rolex never did this for a reason. Think about it well, and make sure you both source the silver hands as well as red hands so you can always change. Keep in mind the tiny chrono hands are pressed in very hard from the factory, they can break easily during a dial swap when the watchmaker has less experience with Daytona dial swaps….

Do whatever you like, and forget what the Rolex parts-police wants you to do….

Or go nuts and do this…. ;)

What a beauty! Wonder if you kept all the other dials for future swaps ?


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[Big Tex Rolex]

Originally Posted by GreatCircle

I have had quit some experience with Daytona dial-swaps. Rest assured the 116509 came factory with both Panda and Slate Arab dial as well, not only the leather strap 116519 whitegold version! Red hands on a Panda can look sporty, but also something just is not right and the look gets boring. Rolex never did this for a reason. Think about it well, and make sure you both source the silver hands as well as red hands so you can always change. Keep in mind the tiny chrono hands are pressed in very hard from the factory, they can break easily during a dial swap when the watchmaker has less experience with Daytona dial swaps….

Do whatever you like, and forget what the Rolex parts-police wants you to do….

Or go nuts and do this…. ;)

How in the heck did you source an Ice Blue dial !!??? That must have cost a small fortune.

That strap is beautiful. Is that a Rolex strap ? If not, may I ask the brand / maker ?

[GreatCircle]

Originally Posted by fskywalker

What a beauty! Wonder if you kept all the other dials for future swaps ?

sure did! Part of my pension-plan , but then I would have to break a promise :(

Originally Posted by Big Tex Rolex

How in the heck did you source an Ice Blue dial !!??? That must have cost a small fortune.

That strap is beautiful. Is that a Rolex strap ? If not, may I ask the brand / maker ?

It is actually an OEM strap and you can still order this colour to day, your AD can let you have a look in the parts system and order it for you in the right size.

The iceblue dial was 550€ to be specific….. The official MSRP in that era! (For people with a baguette 116506 and wanted to tone down……)

I was lucky enough to know a Rolex tech with parts access who loved to make all kinds of funky combo’s. Only had to promise him to never sell the dials. So I didn’t. He moved to a different brand unfortunately already a few years ago. This was same watch with a custom made babyblue strap by the way.



Another funky one, OEM white croco strap