Patek’s Quiet Downgrading of the new Nautilus and Aquanaut

[vliberman]

Originally Posted by GGGMT

This doesn’t make sense to me. I’m not aware of any company that rates its products based on misuse or lack of correct usage by the owner. It would be like a cars safety rating based on assumption the driver won’t wear a seatbelt. Or a firearm assuming that the owner fails to properly engage the trigger safety. Or the owner of a washing machine who fails to close the door and causes the flood. Or medication of which the user takes twice the prescribed amount. Makes no sense.


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I agree… this explanation is nonsense… is Patek measuring accuracy based upon someone forgetting to wind the watch??? I think Patek just lied about the degree of waterproofness of its “sports” watches and got caught!!!

[GGGMT]

Originally Posted by vliberman

is Patek measuring accuracy based upon someone forgetting to wind the watch???

I didn’t think of this one — totally right. I love pp but load of


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[DonLee]

absolutely nobody will get water damage on their Nautilus or Aquanaut unless it is a user error of not screwing the crown down. The water resistance hasn't changed from before. So if you do get water damage, it's not because of the watch, it's you. Not sure why people are upset about this lol.

But this WR change has got me vibes of certain car manufactures underrating their engines and performance, while others overrate them massively, if not straight up lie. This would be the former.

[Patekfinder]

Ratings from the German Watchmakers Association.

[Goose 104]

As someone who still aspires to own a Nautilus or Aquanaut this does actually bother me and put me off the brand to some extent. Really poor decision.

[Patekfinder]

Going on vacation to St. Tropez? Planning on some diving? No longer can you just bring your Nautilus. Make sure you have the backup Casio for when it gets flooded- or take your chances and leave it in the hotel safe. This new diminished WR really throws a wrench into the versatility of the Patek sports catalogue. For god sakes even the AQUAnaut is now 30m — it is absurd. You can’t just certify and build them for more WR? With all the technical and engineering prowess, you can’t just get more WR? You can’t just develop a new crown mechanism and seal between the caseback and crystal for more WR like virtually every other company is able to do? Pierre Jean-Paul is likely too busy filing anglage to worry about WR.

Water resistance and shock resistance are really the two prominent features that separate a sports watch from a dress watch. The Nautilus has quite literally zero technical advantage over a Calatrava. It is a sports-style watch perhaps, but not a sports watch. It’s just a dressed up Calatrava at this point.

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[subtona]

Regarding the warranty, it has been my experience that patek has been honoring a 5 year warranty period even when it has been stated as three.

The reason as explained to me is the recommendation for service intervals has been 5 years. If the watch stops working before the recommended service interval, patek has repaired for me with no charge.

Effectively a five year warranty though it wasn’t stated.



I still don’t like this WR stuff.

[Divingdeep87]

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[pam66]

Originally Posted by DonLee

Firstly, I’m pretty sure nothing has been downgraded. They just write 30m for the sake of it, and now it truly is 30m, as opposed to “10m is only for hand washing”. They say now you really can take it to those depths for swimming or diving.

they never told us whether there were any technical changes to mandate the change of rating. i really doubt it, probably they just don't want to foot water damage repair bills anymore.
and what dies it mean 'really to 30m' as opposed to what? they were telling us lies before?

[John Doyle]

Pretty sure this is also a move to divert attention from the sports watches they make and make their complications and grand complications become more "casual" watches that can be worn in all daily situations. Brilliant move from Patek, and I certainly hope the list for nautilus and aquanauts will now shrink.

[Patekfinder]

Originally Posted by pam66

they never told us whether there were any technical changes to mandate the change of rating. i really doubt it, probably they just don't want to foot water damage repair bills anymore.
and what dies it mean 'really to 30m' as opposed to what? they were telling us lies before?

Yeah, purely a business/warranty liability decision.


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[kaiserphoenix]

This is such BS by Patek. My AD told me its a "true" 30m watch now, ie it can withstand submersion and use at 30m. I would have believed this if the Aquanauts and nautilus said "30m water resistant" and the complications and calatravas with their numerous pushers and snap on case back stating say, "2m water resistant" now. But instead, basically its a 30m water resistant claim for ALL their watches. I mean there is no way in hell that a perpetual calendar chronograph or whatever will withstand swimming in 30m waters. Its just so dissapointing as someone who owns Patek watches.

[masochistsr]

Why has no one from Patek come out and clarified?

Are my pre-2024 5167a and 5711a still 120m? I’ll only wear my 16600 swimming until I get clarification.

[Russell996]

Originally Posted by masochistsr

Why has no one from Patek come out and clarified?

Are my pre-2024 5167a and 5711a still 120m? I’ll only wear my 16600 swimming until I get clarification.

What do you mean, every Patek AD can fully elaborate on the policy for you.

[aa_watch]

Originally Posted by Goose 104

As someone who still aspires to own a Nautilus or Aquanaut this does actually bother me and put me off the brand to some extent. Really poor decision.

I bet less than 1% of Aquanaut / Nautilus owners dive deeper then 30 meters with these watches on the wrist.
WR must be the same as the previous models, I just see this move as a disclaimer.

[edo]

30m means you can't even swim with it... hand washing and some rain to be safe... there is no chance that 30m on Patek sport models means "true 30m" and on dress models "old meaning 30m"...

Patek just giving them space to refuse the service of water damaged watches, and that is the whole story...

Terranaut and Landilus...

[INC]

I think the question is very simple:

If I want to go jet skiing/surfing with the new waterproof Aquanaut, can I do it on the surface, or only at 100 ft deep?

[Divingdeep87]

Found it:

Unified criteria for water-resistance
To ensure the homogeneity and clarity of the information provided to clients, Patek Philippe has decided to introduce a new unified standard of water-resistance set at 30 meters for all watches certified as water- resistant –having been tested in air and underwater by immersion at an overpressure of 3 bars (corresponding to a depth of 30 m). This measure makes it possible to guarantee the same performance level across all the models concerned and to provide perfectly comprehensible information as to the day- to-day activities in which clients can engage while wearing their watch: washing their hands, showering, bathing, swimming and other aquatic activities, including diving to a depth of 30 m – which corresponds in large measure to actual utilization.

[Partekular]

Water resistant is, by definition, not the same as waterproof.

Water resistant is a mealy mouth word - advertising puff - which says one thing and appears to mean another.

A 5320G and any watch on a leather strap is obviously not designed to be doused in water let alone taken swimming. As for diving - buy a specialist dive watch - again the clue is in the name!

“Nautilus” was more about the porthole and 20,000 leagues name than being a 20,000 leagues under the sea watch. Did Patek ever claim it was a real diver’s watch? The screw down crown must make it swimmable to a degree but I wouldn't risk swimming in a 5811 unless it was pressure tested regularly.

I tend to agree that this change is probably about insurance and repair cover risk and suggests they may have had a rash of claims for water damage repairs.

[subtona]

A lot of speculation and interpretation.

[vliberman]

Originally Posted by Partekular

Water resistant is, by definition, not the same as waterproof.

Water resistant is a mealy mouth word - advertising puff - which says one thing and appears to mean another.

A 5320G and any watch on a leather strap is obviously not designed to be doused in water let alone taken swimming. As for diving - buy a specialist dive watch - again the clue is in the name!

“Nautilus” was more about the porthole and 20,000 leagues name than being a 20,000 leagues under the sea watch. Did Patek ever claim it was a real diver’s watch? The screw down crown must make it swimmable to a degree but I wouldn't risk swimming in a 5811 unless it was pressure tested regularly.

I tend to agree that this change is probably about insurance and repair cover risk and suggests they may have had a rash of claims for water damage repairs.

Changing characteristics post sale does nothing in terms of warranty liability! So that can’t be it. I think people refuse to acknowledge the fact that Patek lied. It did so when it had to compete with likes of Rolex and AP. It feels it doesn’t anymore so no need to pretend. It does not manufacture sports watches!

[Vasco]

Originally Posted by subtona

A lot of speculation and interpretation.

Indeed

[Partekular]

Originally Posted by vliberman

Changing characteristics post sale does nothing in terms of warranty liability! So that can’t be it. I think people refuse to acknowledge the fact that Patek lied. It did so when it had to compete with likes of Rolex and AP. It feels it doesn’t anymore so no need to pretend. It does not manufacture sports watches!

As above, I tend to agree - Patek went for the puff - dissimulation rather than lying. But why come clean now if not for bottom covering?

In any event I would never take a £50,000 ++ watch swimming let alone on a beach holiday.

[subtona]

So the speculative fix for the sudden issue of customers leaving the crown unscrewed is to lower the rating to 30m…

A new nautilus will now indicate a 30m WR…

Massive confusion follows:

5 YEARS DOWN THE ROAD WHEN DOZENS OF DRESS WATCHES START COMING INTO PATEK SERVICE AFTER THEY VISITED THE OCEAN BECAUSE THEIR WATCH HAS THE SAME (but different) 30M RATING AS THE NAUTILUS?

WHAT HAS BEEN SOLVED?

[cascavel]

Originally Posted by aa_watch

I bet less than 1% of Aquanaut / Nautilus owners dive deeper then 30 meters with these watches on the wrist.
WR must be the same as the previous models, I just see this move as a disclaimer.

I think you're close but no one takes their Patek down to 30 meters. It's not a dive watch unless you're diving to the deep end of the pool.

[cascavel]

Originally Posted by John Doyle

Pretty sure this is also a move to divert attention from the sports watches they make and make their complications and grand complications become more "casual" watches that can be worn in all daily situations. Brilliant move from Patek, and I certainly hope the list for nautilus and aquanauts will now shrink.

One hundred percent correct except that no one is taking their name off of any list because of this change. No one cares about this issue, in reality.
This is a red herring.

[Ichiran]

I will kiss my AD if he allocates me the 30m 5164G.

[kaiserphoenix]

Originally Posted by cascavel

One hundred percent correct except that no one is taking their name off of any list because of this change. No one cares about this issue, in reality.
This is a red herring.

I think many people DO care about it but its obviously not gonna be a deal breaker for anyone either. BUT the one thing i loved about the aquanaut and nautilus were that they were TRUE sports watches, unlike say an AP Royal Oak which had 5ATM I always respected Patek for making them 120M so people can enjoy them in the water too (or if owners fell off their yachts etc). So this 3ATM thing is super annoying and dissapointing.

[vliberman]

Originally Posted by kaiserphoenix

I think many people DO care about it but its obviously not gonna be a deal breaker for anyone either. BUT the one thing i loved about the aquanaut and nautilus were that they were TRUE sports watches, unlike say an AP Royal Oak which had 5ATM I always respected Patek for making them 120M so people can enjoy them in the water too (or if owners fell off their yachts etc). So this 3ATM thing is super annoying and dissapointing.

I agree, change happens on the margin. Let’s not forget that sports watches made today’s PP, full stop. Few care about anything other than Nautilus or Aquanaut. Quite frankly, Patek doesn’t have much to offer vs current indies in the classic category (outside of super complications). And secondary mkt prices reflect that. Almost every offering trades below MSRP! If sports watches are no longer attractive, game over.

[Bearxj86]

Originally Posted by vliberman

I agree, change happens on the margin. Let’s not forget that sports watches made today’s PP, full stop. Few care about anything other than Nautilus or Aquanaut. Quite frankly, Patek doesn’t have much to offer vs current indies in the classic category (outside of super complications). And secondary mkt prices reflect that. Almost every offering trades below MSRP! If sports watches are no longer attractive, game over.

Not sure I agree about this. PP has always been about grand complications up till 2016/2017 and most of them (including Nautilus/Aquanaut) traded below MSRP except for the rarer LE stuff.

Today, I think the hype is coming down a bit. In the end I think the sports line will always be popular but it will be more balanced.

If you own a Naut/Aquanaut, its a great watch but after a while it becomes boring. The Perpetual Calendar Chronos and chronographs tend to do well in the long term from a valuation standpoint (after discontinuation).