Disappointment over annual new releases?

[Octagon Guy]

Topic inspired by an article from Fratello Watches (https://www.fratellowatches.com/do-w...s-and-wonders/).

Most annual releases are focused on new dial/bezel colour, new material used and/or change in size on current models. Seldom do we see a total new design language.

I'm more intrigued by new product lines rather than tweaks to existing designs. Yes, a ceramic ROC is probably more enticing than a steel or gold counterpart. A John Mayer QP's dial is also more mesmerising than a standard QP but personally, minor changes like these gets boring after some time.

The release of CODE 11.59 in 2019 is very refreshing. Response to the new design language might sway either way but we can't deny the fact that it creates much more discussion in the market and stirs interests in an otherwise boring anticipation of what's new.

I'm so looking forward to a total new release by AP or other brands. Or at least a major change in complications such as the release of Starwheel compared to minor tweaks to the 3 hand/chronograph CODEs but guess that only happens once in a blue moon.

[nazarian]

I’d love a refresh on the divers and offshores. So much potential if they were thinner and had smaller case sizes.

[In-N-Out]

didn't read the article, but it's important to consider the context that AP and some other Swiss watchmakers have been around for 150 years. so prestigious brands don't really cater to short term demands / interests from customers and they are more concerned about staying relevant for decades and centuries, not quarters or years.

with that context above in mind, I think AP is one of the few brands that continues to find the right balance between conserving its heritage while still pushing boundaries and challenging the status quo. some years they might go too overboard and miss the mark (limited editions, celeb collabs, brand collabs), but they wouldn't be where they are today without some of the "out there" endorsements, collaborations, and associations with certain individuals/cultures today.

for those with a finance background, you understand that sometimes YoY % doesn't tell the complete story. you have to look at 2, 3, 4, 5 year CAGRs, calculations which ignore the swings in the years in between and only considers the compounded growth for a longer time period, considering only where you started and where you currently are at. so you might not see annual growth compared to prior year, but perhaps that's bc the prior year was an unusually great year and 2 years back is the better comp.

not the best analogy, but for a 150 years old brand like AP, I think it's better to compare 2024 to where AP was in 2019 like you mentioned.

in the last 5+ years:
-CODE was released, gen 1-2 were total misses, but AP came out with steel models, 38mm, and unique movements like the star wheel. I'm very bullish about this line and I think the code has a fantastic future
-jumbo finally got updated to a modern movement, something people have been wanting for many years
-mostly in-house movements across the board
-quick strap system on ROO
-full ceramic RO's starting to become some of the hottest watches in the industry (I believe they came out in 2017 first)


There are many more examples of some of the innovations we've seen from ap in the last ~5 years, but that's just top of mind.

easy to get disappointed with AP and the entire watch industry, but the same thing can be said about the iPhone. annual updates are relatively disappointing, but when you compare the iPhone 14 to the iPhone 8, what a massive difference.

anyway, I do wish AP releases a dual time though....been eyeing a GMT Pepsi for a while just to get the complication....would rather wait for a dual time even if it is on the Code or offshore

[J.T.]

Originally Posted by In-N-Out

didn't read the article, but it's important to consider the context that AP and some other Swiss watchmakers have been around for 150 years. so prestigious brands don't really cater to short term demands / interests from customers and they are more concerned about staying relevant for decades and centuries, not quarters or years.

with that context above in mind, I think AP is one of the few brands that continues to find the right balance between conserving its heritage while still pushing boundaries and challenging the status quo. some years they might go too overboard and miss the mark (limited editions, celeb collabs, brand collabs), but they wouldn't be where they are today without some of the "out there" endorsements, collaborations, and associations with certain individuals/cultures today.

for those with a finance background, you understand that sometimes YoY % doesn't tell the complete story. you have to look at 2, 3, 4, 5 year CAGRs, calculations which ignore the swings in the years in between and only considers the compounded growth for a longer time period, considering only where you started and where you currently are at. so you might not see annual growth compared to prior year, but perhaps that's bc the prior year was an unusually great year and 2 years back is the better comp.

not the best analogy, but for a 150 years old brand like AP, I think it's better to compare 2024 to where AP was in 2019 like you mentioned.

in the last 5+ years:
-CODE was released, gen 1-2 were total misses, but AP came out with steel models, 38mm, and unique movements like the star wheel. I'm very bullish about this line and I think the code has a fantastic future
-jumbo finally got updated to a modern movement, something people have been wanting for many years
-mostly in-house movements across the board
-quick strap system on ROO
-full ceramic RO's starting to become some of the hottest watches in the industry (I believe they came out in 2017 first)


There are many more examples of some of the innovations we've seen from ap in the last ~5 years, but that's just top of mind.

easy to get disappointed with AP and the entire watch industry, but the same thing can be said about the iPhone. annual updates are relatively disappointing, but when you compare the iPhone 14 to the iPhone 8, what a massive difference.

anyway, I do wish AP releases a dual time though....been eyeing a GMT Pepsi for a while just to get the complication....would rather wait for a dual time even if it is on the Code or offshore

Well said

[codecow]

When Code came out it was a laughing stock. That there is any interest at all today is quite a turnaround from where it started.

I think the newer models are quite nice, especially the Star Wheel. If you had told me I’d eventually want a Code when they were released I would have laughed, but who’s laughing now?

Good job by AP.

Next question is whether they can convert consumer interest into sales. For me they can’t because they have no inventory!

[Audevache]

I liked the new releases from AP. Was it revolutionary? Certainly not. But they finally fixed (IMHO) the Code line by getting the new design language into all models, and they even launched a fully new material, Sand Gold, which I’m a big fan of, and can’t wait to see it trickle into more product lines.

Compared to Patek and Rolex’ borefest at W&W, I really find AP’s 2024 novelties to be the most interesting.

[crispyness87]

Originally Posted by In-N-Out

didn't read the article, but it's important to consider the context that AP and some other Swiss watchmakers have been around for 150 years. so prestigious brands don't really cater to short term demands / interests from customers and they are more concerned about staying relevant for decades and centuries, not quarters or years.

with that context above in mind, I think AP is one of the few brands that continues to find the right balance between conserving its heritage while still pushing boundaries and challenging the status quo. some years they might go too overboard and miss the mark (limited editions, celeb collabs, brand collabs), but they wouldn't be where they are today without some of the "out there" endorsements, collaborations, and associations with certain individuals/cultures today.

for those with a finance background, you understand that sometimes YoY % doesn't tell the complete story. you have to look at 2, 3, 4, 5 year CAGRs, calculations which ignore the swings in the years in between and only considers the compounded growth for a longer time period, considering only where you started and where you currently are at. so you might not see annual growth compared to prior year, but perhaps that's bc the prior year was an unusually great year and 2 years back is the better comp.

not the best analogy, but for a 150 years old brand like AP, I think it's better to compare 2024 to where AP was in 2019 like you mentioned.

in the last 5+ years:
-CODE was released, gen 1-2 were total misses, but AP came out with steel models, 38mm, and unique movements like the star wheel. I'm very bullish about this line and I think the code has a fantastic future
-jumbo finally got updated to a modern movement, something people have been wanting for many years
-mostly in-house movements across the board
-quick strap system on ROO
-full ceramic RO's starting to become some of the hottest watches in the industry (I believe they came out in 2017 first)


There are many more examples of some of the innovations we've seen from ap in the last ~5 years, but that's just top of mind.

easy to get disappointed with AP and the entire watch industry, but the same thing can be said about the iPhone. annual updates are relatively disappointing, but when you compare the iPhone 14 to the iPhone 8, what a massive difference.

anyway, I do wish AP releases a dual time though....been eyeing a GMT Pepsi for a while just to get the complication....would rather wait for a dual time even if it is on the Code or offshore

100%.
And I’m with you on the dual time…

[77T]

The ateliers are not prone to annual disruptive models.

If an advancement is introduced, it is calmly integrated into the model line - for example the 32xx caliber.

If you want to see how the system performs differently - look to Apple Watch.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Octagon Guy]

Originally Posted by In-N-Out

didn't read the article, but it's important to consider the context that AP and some other Swiss watchmakers have been around for 150 years. so prestigious brands don't really cater to short term demands / interests from customers and they are more concerned about staying relevant for decades and centuries, not quarters or years.

with that context above in mind, I think AP is one of the few brands that continues to find the right balance between conserving its heritage while still pushing boundaries and challenging the status quo. some years they might go too overboard and miss the mark (limited editions, celeb collabs, brand collabs), but they wouldn't be where they are today without some of the "out there" endorsements, collaborations, and associations with certain individuals/cultures today.

for those with a finance background, you understand that sometimes YoY % doesn't tell the complete story. you have to look at 2, 3, 4, 5 year CAGRs, calculations which ignore the swings in the years in between and only considers the compounded growth for a longer time period, considering only where you started and where you currently are at. so you might not see annual growth compared to prior year, but perhaps that's bc the prior year was an unusually great year and 2 years back is the better comp.

not the best analogy, but for a 150 years old brand like AP, I think it's better to compare 2024 to where AP was in 2019 like you mentioned.

in the last 5+ years:
-CODE was released, gen 1-2 were total misses, but AP came out with steel models, 38mm, and unique movements like the star wheel. I'm very bullish about this line and I think the code has a fantastic future
-jumbo finally got updated to a modern movement, something people have been wanting for many years
-mostly in-house movements across the board
-quick strap system on ROO
-full ceramic RO's starting to become some of the hottest watches in the industry (I believe they came out in 2017 first)


There are many more examples of some of the innovations we've seen from ap in the last ~5 years, but that's just top of mind.

easy to get disappointed with AP and the entire watch industry, but the same thing can be said about the iPhone. annual updates are relatively disappointing, but when you compare the iPhone 14 to the iPhone 8, what a massive difference.

anyway, I do wish AP releases a dual time though....been eyeing a GMT Pepsi for a while just to get the complication....would rather wait for a dual time even if it is on the Code or offshore

Totally agree with your points in economic sense. I was just stating my personal views based on a collector's point of view.

[Vince_76]

Originally Posted by In-N-Out

didn't read the article, but it's important to consider the context that AP and some other Swiss watchmakers have been around for 150 years. so prestigious brands don't really cater to short term demands / interests from customers and they are more concerned about staying relevant for decades and centuries, not quarters or years.

with that context above in mind, I think AP is one of the few brands that continues to find the right balance between conserving its heritage while still pushing boundaries and challenging the status quo. some years they might go too overboard and miss the mark (limited editions, celeb collabs, brand collabs), but they wouldn't be where they are today without some of the "out there" endorsements, collaborations, and associations with certain individuals/cultures today.

for those with a finance background, you understand that sometimes YoY % doesn't tell the complete story. you have to look at 2, 3, 4, 5 year CAGRs, calculations which ignore the swings in the years in between and only considers the compounded growth for a longer time period, considering only where you started and where you currently are at. so you might not see annual growth compared to prior year, but perhaps that's bc the prior year was an unusually great year and 2 years back is the better comp.

not the best analogy, but for a 150 years old brand like AP, I think it's better to compare 2024 to where AP was in 2019 like you mentioned.

in the last 5+ years:
-CODE was released, gen 1-2 were total misses, but AP came out with steel models, 38mm, and unique movements like the star wheel. I'm very bullish about this line and I think the code has a fantastic future
-jumbo finally got updated to a modern movement, something people have been wanting for many years
-mostly in-house movements across the board
-quick strap system on ROO
-full ceramic RO's starting to become some of the hottest watches in the industry (I believe they came out in 2017 first)


There are many more examples of some of the innovations we've seen from ap in the last ~5 years, but that's just top of mind.

easy to get disappointed with AP and the entire watch industry, but the same thing can be said about the iPhone. annual updates are relatively disappointing, but when you compare the iPhone 14 to the iPhone 8, what a massive difference.

anyway, I do wish AP releases a dual time though....been eyeing a GMT Pepsi for a while just to get the complication....would rather wait for a dual time even if it is on the Code or offshore

This. Very well said. Not to mention all the materials science innovation (not only ceramic but BMG, sand gold etc.).

By the way, we are talking about mechanical watches here. I don’t want to see (nor can I even seen) advances leaps and bounds YoY.

If there’s one addition that I’d love, it’s a dual time. Please bring it back if you’re reading this AP

[Audevache]

Let’s also not forget that AP has their 150s anniversary coming up next year so I’d assume major movement launches (like the new QP) will be coming in 2025.