The future of CODE 11.59

[Octagon Guy]

Originally Posted by nickorette

The losses on codes and offshores are substantial, as are the gains for RO. I think it would be healthier if both models offered modest gains, and that would mean making less codes/offshores and more RO.

Originally Posted by Bpan

He is saying production should be rebalanced so that the supply matches the demand and that the market clearing price for all references is close to (maybe slightly above) the MSRP. With this, the flippers will be removed and watch enthusiasts will get the watches they want without an excessive wait and without instantly losing a large percent of the value when they walk out the door

At approximately 11% production for CODEs, I don't think that's alot. I would think the issue lies with the flippers/AD mentality to buy/sell a CODE to be allocated/allocate a RO. That results in people who doesn't appreciate the CODE to buy and dispose to recover funds. That causes the open market price to tank significantly, especially for CODEs.

I did discuss with my Boutique manager if it's true that getting a CODE is the key to a RO allocation (just a casual discussion as I'm the rare few that has no interest in RO/ROO) and she explained it's a concept misunderstood. Her explanation is that during the hype, as everyone knows, the demand for RO is so high that it spills over to the ROO. And allocation priority is reserved for existing clients. So to be on the list, the fastest way is to become an existing customer. The 1st purchase can be any watch. But needless to say, the CODE is one of the easiest then. I have friends who kick start their journey with a ROO in 2021/2022 and have received their ROs as their 2nd or 3rd piece. And to date, they don't own any 11.59

And Boutique is trying to change the mass mentality and remedy the situation by prioritising the sale of Steel CODEs and Starwheel to existing CODE owners.

[PreferHackingSeconds]

Originally Posted by Octagon Guy

At approximately 11% production for CODEs, I don't think that's alot. I would think the issue lies with the flippers/AD mentality to buy/sell a CODE to be allocated/allocate a RO. That results in people who doesn't appreciate the CODE to buy and dispose to recover funds. That causes the open market price to tank significantly, especially for CODEs.

I did discuss with my Boutique manager if it's true that getting a CODE is the key to a RO allocation (just a casual discussion as I'm the rare few that has no interest in RO/ROO) and she explained it's a concept misunderstood. Her explanation is that during the hype, as everyone knows, the demand for RO is so high that it spills over to the ROO. And allocation priority is reserved for existing clients. So to be on the list, the fastest way is to become an existing customer. The 1st purchase can be any watch. But needless to say, the CODE is one of the easiest then. I have friends who kick start their journey with a ROO in 2021/2022 and have received their ROs as their 2nd or 3rd piece. And to date, they don't own any 11.59

And Boutique is trying to change the mass mentality and remedy the situation by prioritising the sale of Steel CODEs and Starwheel to existing CODE owners.

Interestingly in my boutique, when I first visited in 2022, told me the easiest piece to start was a ROO or a 34/37mm RO. The Codes were produced a lot less. The manager then tried to find me a 26420IO, to no avail and told me to revisit again when there is something else I like.

[Octagon Guy]

Originally Posted by PreferHackingSeconds

Interestingly in my boutique, when I first visited in 2022, told me the easiest piece to start was a ROO or a 34/37mm RO. The Codes were produced a lot less. The manager then tried to find me a 26420IO, to no avail and told me to revisit again when there is something else I like.

Probably different Boutiques at different regions are having different inventory/demand. But it all points to the same scenario. All SA are trying to help new clients-to-be kick start their journey. But sadly, it has been badly misinterpreted as a "bundling" sales tactic.

[Halothane]

Originally Posted by Octagon Guy

Probably different Boutiques at different regions are having different inventory/demand. But it all points to the same scenario. All SA are trying to help new clients-to-be kick start their journey. But sadly, it has been badly misinterpreted as a "bundling" sales tactic.

It's not "misinterpreted" at all. In fact it's worse than bundling because when you buy a Code you don't get the RO at the same time. You AP fanboys can say what you like but outside a few pieces AP is a one-trick Royal Oak company and they know this. Some sales agents appear to be better than others but when I have personally heard the following from SA's, there is no misinterpretation:

A code is a great way to become an existing customer

A code for the wife would help your chance for a Royal Oak

AP wants to see you are a fan of the "brand" so its helpful to own a piece from every line

[PreferHackingSeconds]

Originally Posted by Halothane

It's not "misinterpreted" at all. In fact it's worse than bundling because when you buy a Code you don't get the RO at the same time. You AP fanboys can say what you like but outside a few pieces AP is a one-trick Royal Oak company and they know this. Some sales agents appear to be better than others but when I have personally heard the following from SA's, there is no misinterpretation:

A code is a great way to become an existing customer

A code for the wife would help your chance for a Royal Oak

AP wants to see you are a fan of the "brand" so its helpful to own a piece from every line

Seems hard to please everyone. If AP makes the Royal Oak alone, people accuse AP of being a one trick pony. They make a non RO watch and people are yet still unhappy.

As for secondary prices, I wouldn't mind if everything went to the good old days of being under retail. Not too long ago, Rolex Steel professional models and Nautiluses sat in the display case and the AD was offering them at a discount.

At the end of the day, I want to buy my watches to celebrate a milestone, so I would prefer getting them from the boutique brand new. If everyone cared so much about resale, who would buy them new? There are many great watches that lose a lot of value the moment you buy it, yet many people still do so.

[Octagon Guy]

Originally Posted by PreferHackingSeconds

Seems hard to please everyone. If AP makes the Royal Oak alone, people accuse AP of being a one trick pony. They make a non RO watch and people are yet still unhappy.

As for secondary prices, I wouldn't mind if everything went to the good old days of being under retail. Not too long ago, Rolex Steel professional models and Nautiluses sat in the display case and the AD was offering them at a discount.

At the end of the day, I want to buy my watches to celebrate a milestone, so I would prefer getting them from the boutique brand new. If everyone cared so much about resale, who would buy them new? There are many great watches that lose a lot of value the moment you buy it, yet many people still do so.

That's precisely why I try to ignore these hater's posts after I realised they are the ones who not necessarily hate the design of the CODE, but rather, hate the fact they faced difficulties about obtaining a RO at msrp from Boutique. Derived this conclusion as they are always nagging about the value depreciation like a broken record, rather than pinpoint any design flaws. Which I believe they can't really find any as anyone who has really handled a CODE and is open minded, would agree the design and workmanship way supercedes a RO/ROO. But anyone can still choose not to like the CODE as someone's meat is another's poison. Just stating we shd be more objective.

[AK797]

Originally Posted by Halothane

It's not "misinterpreted" at all. In fact it's worse than bundling because when you buy a Code you don't get the RO at the same time. You AP fanboys can say what you like but outside a few pieces AP is a one-trick Royal Oak company and they know this. Some sales agents appear to be better than others but when I have personally heard the following from SA's, there is no misinterpretation:

A code is a great way to become an existing customer

A code for the wife would help your chance for a Royal Oak

AP wants to see you are a fan of the "brand" so its helpful to own a piece from every line

The Code is not my style but it has done well here over the years and is a bona fide new AP sports line alongside the RO and ROO, now lets see if PP can do the same with Cubitus, already a much worse name than the Code, and I doubt it will be anything more than filler for those who cannot get a Naut/ Aqua so PP have a hard road and you PP fanboys had better wait and see if PP can match AP in a succesful new sports line, so far a bad start.

[PreferHackingSeconds]

Originally Posted by AK797

The Code is not my style but it has done well here over the years and is a bona fide new AP sports line alongside the RO and ROO, now lets see if PP can do the same with Cubitus, already a much worse name than the Code, and I doubt it will be anything more than filler for those who cannot get a Naut/ Aqua so PP have a hard road and you PP fanboys had better wait and see if PP can match AP in a succesful new sports line, so far a bad start.

It’s funny how most people who complain about AP being a one trick pony forget that Rolex makes multiple iterations of the same watch from that one case design.

As for PP, I love it but with all the ADs getting chopped recently, lots of people are going to have to restart again. At least with AP boutique, you are a direct customer to the brand. I have a good relation with my PP AD, but he mentions that they may get the chop and advises me to wait for the perpetuals I really want, or head to AP and look for a perpetual RO.

Even if one may really dislike the Code, I personally think it’s a better buy than some of the jewellery and other watches I’ve seen ADs ask people to buy to get a Nautilus or Aquanaut.