GMT 1675 Dials

[shou.biao.kuang]

Originally Posted by CrownMe

"...matte dials with white lettering.

Is this the reason why some call the 'matt dial' as 'white dial'?

[shou.biao.kuang]

Hi Springer & All,

Any "fire-proof" way(s) of differentiating between the gilt and the matte dials?

From this thread, it seems gilt dial are closely associated with the radial dial (longer second-markers & larger gap between the plots and the second-markers) with the exception of G5 & G6 dial which looks like the whites too. I noticed that the gilt dials have the smaller 24-hour GMT hands. Is this another one way to differentiate them?

[springer]

Originally Posted by shou.biao.kuang

Hi Springer,

Great post and discussions here on the dial of 1675.

One thing really puzzled me. Orchi, a forumer here, also did a thread on the dial variance of the 1675 (thread: ROLEX Ref. 1675 GMT Master Dial Variants) (http://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=74976). What he had discussed there seems to contradict what you presented on this thread.

For example, both the threads mentioned different MK I of the 1675, although they were known by different names. The ones you mentioned were gilt and white dials whereas his were matt dials. Which came first though? or both came concurrently? or the matt dials were also known as white dials?

Would love to hear your advice and thanks in advance :)

Orchi is another GMT aficionado like many of us. I didn't use the mark numbers so I wouldn't confuse anybody. Also, if you read Orchi's complete thread, I did not agree with his conclusion that the Mark X was a service dial - since it definitely came on the GMTs during the end of the 1970s.

Orchi's thread only dealt with the white dials from circa 1967 to 1980. The gilt dials started with the production of the first GMT 1675s from 1959 until around 1966 when the white dials replaced the gilts.

[shou.biao.kuang]

Originally Posted by springer

Orchi's thread only dealt with the white dials from circa 1967 to 1980. The gilt dials started with the production of the first GMT 1675s from 1959 until around 1966 when the white dials replaced the gilts.

Hi Springer,

Thanks heaps for the great analysis here. Grateful as always

As Orchi only stated the series number (1.6mil to mid 2xmil), I was a little confused as to which came on first, though I did have some knowledge that gilt dials came first before the matte dials.

By the way, when you use the term 'white dials' in this thread, I assume it's the same as 'matte dials' mentioned elsewhere? Honestly, this is the first time I have heard of the use of the description 'white dial'.

Thanks again in advance.

[springer]

Originally Posted by shou.biao.kuang

Hi Springer,

Thanks heaps for the great analysis here. Grateful as always

As Orchi only stated the series number (1.6mil to mid 2xmil), I was a little confused as to which came on first, though I did have some knowledge that gilt dials came first before the matte dials.

By the way, when you use the term 'white dials' in this thread, I assume it's the same as 'matte dials' mentioned elsewhere? Honestly, this is the first time I have heard of the use of the description 'white dial'.

Thanks again in advance.

Gilt dials as you wrote means gilt lettering. White dials as mentioned in my last post means white lettering.

If you read my first post in this thread, I wrote, "After the gilt dials, the printing became white on the GMT dials." As I continued in this post, I referred to the white-lettered-dials as white dials which is not any different than identifying the gilt lettering as gilt dials.

[pexus]

What a magnificent thread....Thanks for sharing John...
Hopefully you'll do one for the 16750 dials too :)

[nikanarani]

Superb!

[Cc1966]

Still learning before I pull the trigger.

[strafer_kid]

Great post for the 1675 aficionado! Most useful!

[acr]

Great info. W-3 is looking good

[springer]

An update to another GMT 1675 white-lettered dial - Mark 2a.

A few months ago, a variation of a white lettered GMT 1675 dial was brought to the attention of members on VRF. The dial appeared to be a variation of the Mark II (W-2) GMT 1675 dial. After several days of discussion, without rehashing it all here, the dial was in fact determined to be a genuine dial and a variation of the Mark 2 dial. The dial appears to be a very rare GMT dial, since many of us there had never seen this one before. The dial is now referred to as the Mark 2a. It appears to be a variation of the Mark 2 (W-2) except that the points of the coronet on the Mark 2a appear crooked when compared to the W-2 dial. The estimated production era seems to be from around 1970-1973. Below are some photos of the Mark 2a dial, some which have been emailed to me and the others taken from VRF posts and the internet.

[CrownMe]

thanks for the info john. very useful info

[jedly1]

another to add in ...the numbers of these are very small , in my whole time I've only had 3-4 . they tend to be quite nice as they hold their shine very well and don't take on the green tinge that a lot of the other non chapter ones do to the lume , more the tones that pick up the orange as in the subs with a similar construction

swiss <25t under the minutes

[southtexas]

Excellent lesson guys, thanks very much. I'm studying up as I'm going to look at 2 tomorrow; I'm told a circa 1966 and 1970. I haven't seen a pic of them yet or even spoken with the owner; it's being set up through a jewelry store in town.

Hopefully I'll be posting up pics tomorrow in a new thread for your feedback. Be on the look-out for me please!


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[springer]

Originally Posted by southtexas

Excellent lesson guys, thanks very much. I'm studying up as I'm going to look at 2 tomorrow; I'm told a circa 1966 and 1970. I haven't seen a pic of them yet or even spoken with the owner; it's being set up through a jewelry store in town.

Hopefully I'll be posting up pics tomorrow in a new thread for your feedback. Be on the look-out for me please!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

1966 should be a W-1 dial. 1970 W-1, possibly W-2 based on serial number.

If the serial number is under 14XXXXX on the 1966, it might be a gilt (gold) lettered dial.

Post up some pics tomorrow in a new thread and also list the serial numbers. Good luck.

[southtexas]

Thanks very much, will do. I certainly plan to compare them to the dials you posted to check for any inconsistencies. But I will also take a lot of pics (and I'm bringing along the ollo clip macro lens for clear pics).

I look forward to everyone's feedback!


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[Rto]

John, great post! Thanks for sharing your expertise with us. Very enjoyable to read and become educated.

Is this dial bellow considered a Service Dial then?

Would it be correct and compatible with a late 70s production? What serial range should be then?

Thanks in advance!

[springer]

Originally Posted by Rto

John, great post! Thanks for sharing your expertise with us. Very enjoyable to read and become educated.

Is this dial bellow considered a Service Dial then?

Would it be correct and compatible with a late 70s production? What serial range should be then?

Thanks in advance!

It is not a service dial but a late 1970's dial.

[Rto]

Originally Posted by springer

It is not a service dial but a late 1970's dial.

Thanks John.

Then this one bellow is what is called Gilt dial since it has a gold lettering, correct?

[springer]

Originally Posted by Rto

Thanks John.

Then this one bellow is what is called Gilt dial since it has a gold lettering, correct?

Looks very "gold" to me. Usually in photos, it is hard to distinguish the gilt dials from the white-lettered dials. Hands have been replaced. I'd have someone local check the dial to make sure it's genuine.

[bobbipiazza]

Enjoyed this post!

Bob Ridley recently received an interesting 6542, and asked me to post his reference pictures.

This is a RSC-authorized refinish from 1971. The watch serial numbers match the paperwork, so it's a verified example of what an authorized refinish looked like in 1971.

[springer]

In reviewing this thread for someone today, I noticed that a few white-lettered GMT 1675 dials were missing and wanted to update these dials. My original intent was to have these dials in chronological order but it didn't work out that way and I apologize. One of these days I will try and get everything in chronological order. With the inclusion of the three dials below, all of the white-lettered dials are pictured within this thread, which according to my last count is 9 dials. The dials are, MARK 0, MARK 1, MARK 2, MARK 2.5, MARK 3, MARK 4 MARK 5 MARK 5.A and MARK 6. Below are examples of the MARK 0, MARK 5.A and MARK 6. (If you have not read the complete thread, the white-lettered dials are identified with a W prefix, such as W-1, W-2 etc which is how I identified the white-lettered dials so they wouldn't be confused with the gilt dials which are identified with a G prefix.)


The MARK 0 dial is the first variation of the white-lettered dials and appears in the late 1.4 million serial number range up to possibly the 1.6 million range serial numbers. The MARK 0 dial appears very similar to the last variation of the gilt dial. The coronet also appears similar to the MARK 2 white-lettered dial. From my personal observations, and others I have talked with, the MARK 0 watches had the small 24-hour hand as "original equipment." The GMTs with this dial rarely show up for sale and are rather elusive.

The MARK 5.A is a variation of the MARK 5 dial, with font spacing somewhat different along with a slightly different coronet than the MARK 5 dial. The time frame for this dial seems to be from around 1976 until the late 1970s - the same era as the MARK 5 dial.

The MARK 6 dial has a very long, slender coronet and from my experience, appears to be the last variation of the GMT 1675 dials from the late 1970s. This dial could have been used as a service dial at some point in time.

While some here might not agree with my assumptions, my observations and conclusions are based are many years of ownership and time studying the various Rolex GMT 1675 variations. I am by no means an expert, but do enjoy the GMT models.

[jfmiii]

John, thanks so much. This is such a great resource and should be a sticky, imo. Would you consider doing something similar for GMT bezels?

[shou.biao.kuang]

Originally Posted by jfmiii

Would you consider doing something similar for GMT bezels?

I wish for this too as info on the GMT insert studies are lacking compared to the Subs, with its Long 5, Kissing 4 etc...

[jdmi32]

Thanks for all the info, John. I still find all the GMT dial variations to be utterly confusing.

[BurntSam]

Please could the experts advise if a circa 1962 87X,XXX serial case, with pointed crown guards would have a Non-Chapter Ring dial, the one I am looking at appears to have the "SWISS" Underline dial. I dont think I can post pictures as I am new to the forum.
Thanks in advance.

[watchcrank]

I have seen the "swiss" only non chapter in watches from 870xxx through early 1.1 mil.
Having not owned one from new it is not a perfect science. I always thought that the 1.0 mil was the area of manufacture for swiss non chapter but with GMT cases at the end of the production cycle of gilts we tend to see mixed. Case backs sometimes tell more of a story than the mid case numbers. Just my personal observations. m

[project_alpha]

Thanks for putting this together. Very informative. Cheers

[shou.biao.kuang]

and modest of you to say you are not an expert

I was revisiting this thread after nearly two years away and saw that you have updated the thread with the MK 0 which I was thinking of mentioning it here.

Keep adding on and you can be sure I will keep coming back here to look for updates & add-ons

[RC2]

John. Is this a mark 5?

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