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19 December 2005, 06:31 AM

JJ's thread on Rolex v ETA had some comments in it by Padi on shock protection. I have become familiar with some of the different styles out there, so thought I would present some pictures of a few for your reference. I am certainly no expert on this, so just some observations I've made on the various types I've seen personally.......

Shock protection is designed to allow the shaft (pivot) of the balance to move under a shock, reducing the chance of damage, but to also bring it back in it's proper place. I found this diagram that shows some section views of what this looks like.

The two main players in this area are Incabloc and Kif. I have found some information from the 50's to show what their respective "signature" style of shock absorber design looks like.

First, the "traditional" Incabloc design.

And this is the original Kif design.

The first photo is from a vintage Bulova watch movement that I have taken apart to clean, lubricate, and hopefully get back running again. It's a Caliber 10BT.....note the lack of any shock protection.......at least that I can see......

In my view this is not good at all, as there is a chance that a hard shock could break the balance pivot.

The next is from my Seiko 5 - I cracked the case to take this photo of the 7S26 movement. It has shock protection, but it looks quite crude in it's construction - certainly a good movement, but you can see why it's not expensive. I don't recognize this design, so it is likely Seiko's own.

The next is from my project watch. It shows the Incabloc system used on this particular 2801 hand wound movement. Some may mistake this for an older style Kif shock protection, with the "clover" shaped spring. I can tell you that this one is a challenge to work with, as you have to bend the outside diameter of the spring down over the jewel, and then hold it there as you rotate it into the grooves to keep it in place. This design is the Incabloc Novadiac system.

Here's a different photo of the same unit.......

The Incabloc that most are used to seeing is like the one shown in this ETA2836 that just arrived this week for my next project watch. This is an automatic movement from ETA, complete with day and date complications. It shows the lyre shaped spring that holds the jewel in place.

Note the difference between the style used in the 2801 and 2836 - the 2801's spring has 3 points of contact with the jewel, where the 2836's style has only two points (one on either side of the jewel). Theoretically, the style with 3 points of contact should center the jewel better after a shock. Of course with these kinds of things, I'm sure there are many trade-offs in the designs. Only the manufacturer's know the real details, so I'm just speculating on some obvious points here. One thing that has crossed my mind is the effective spring length between these two designs - it may be the the spring with 2 points of contact can travel further out of position than the other can......

Here is a shot of the shock protection in my Glashutte Original, Caliber 65.....

It appears to be the standard Incabloc style.

This last photo of mine shows my JLC Master Moon Caliber 891's shock protection, which is the same style that you will find in a modern Rolex movement. This is the current Kif design, which looks a lot like the Incabloc at first glance, but then you can see a difference. It has 3 points of contact on the jewel rather than 2. However, it is clipped in place like the Incabloc standard design is, so I'm sure this is easier to work with than the Novadiac (old Kif) style would be.

Now I have this image of a Rolex 3135 movement, where you can see that the shock protection is the same as in my JLC - the "newer" Kif style.

So, I hope this will help you all recognize what the different types of shock protection look like, as they can easily be confused if you don't look at them closely.

G Shearing · 19 December 2005, 09:37 AM

Very informative.

mailman · 19 December 2005, 10:26 AM

Thanks Al. It's always nice to put a picture with words. Sometimes it's easier to comprehend.

maverick · 19 December 2005, 11:09 AM

It shows why the KIF is superior. =) maverick

Earl · 19 December 2005, 11:17 AM

I enjoyed that alot good post :o)

JJ Irani · 19 December 2005, 03:02 PM

Great post, Al....that was very informative and educational!!
Since we are on the subject, I would also like to know what kind of system Panerai uses. Please oblige if you know. Thanks.

Cheers - JJ

JuniorPhatFarm · 19 December 2005, 03:14 PM

Thanks! Good post.

19 December 2005, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maverick

It shows why the KIF is superior. =) maverick

It does?

19 December 2005, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JJ Irani

Great post, Al....that was very informative and educational!!
Since we are on the subject, I would also like to know what kind of system Panerai uses. Please oblige if you know. Thanks.

Cheers - JJ

I haven't studied this aspect of Panerai movements, JJ. However, if you look at the display back photo in Micah's thread on his new watch, it appears to be the traditional Incabloc design.

padi56 · 19 December 2005, 10:46 PM

Great information Al Just two main players left now in all but Japanese watches Kif and Incabloc The Jap system looks remarkably like the Incabloc,at one time nearly every manufacturer had there own name. for the system they used here is a few below.And on most of the ETA movements different grades of shock protection, like from the bottom grade 2824 to top grade chronometer movements 2824-2T.If I remember correct the KIF system
came in around 1930,think the KIf system is more suited to the slimmer type movements,think Incabloc came slightly later.

Antichoc 102
Bemus
Bidlingmaier
Bigalu
Brac
Bulova
Cimier Lapanouse
Combilager
Contrachoc
Cortebert Spirofix
Cymaflex
Diac
Durobloc
DuroswingFarr-Intex.
Emo Antichoc
Eterna
Fixmobil
Duofix
Forster
General. Neutro Shock
Girocap
Hercules
Inbterco
Incabloc
Incastar
Intex
Junghans
Kienzle
Kif "A" Flector
Kif Protechoc
Kif Trior
Liengme Shockstop
Lubrifix
Master Shock
Medaflex
Microflex
Monorex 53
Novochoc A & B
Oris
Parechoc
Protax
Resochoc
Resomatic
Ruby Shock
Rufarex
Shock Resist
Shock Stabil
Simrex
Super Shock Resist
Ultrabloc
Unichoc
Unisafe
Uwersi-Vufe,Diashock
Vibrax
Vibrochoc

19 December 2005, 11:35 PM

Wow, someone had a slow weekend!

Great post Al. Informative and illustrative too! Awesome stuff.

dman · 20 December 2005, 01:14 AM

Awesome post Al!!

20 December 2005, 01:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atomic

Wow, someone had a slow weekend!

Great post Al. Informative and illustrative too! Awesome stuff.

Not really a slow weekend, but "felt the need" to post this.......

20 December 2005, 02:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avalon

Not really a slow weekend, but "felt the need" to post this.......

How did you like the debate on Friday night?

JJ Irani · 20 December 2005, 02:59 AM

Hey Mods,

Can I request one of you to place all the info and images in Al's post under Resources on our forum? Useful ready reference whenever we need it.

Thanks - JJ

padi56 · 20 December 2005, 03:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JJ Irani

Hey Mods,

Can I request one of you to place all the info and images in Al's post under Resources on our forum? Useful ready reference whenever we need it.

Thanks - JJ

Done

JJ Irani · 20 December 2005, 03:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by padi56

Done

Good one, Padi...many thanks!!

Gedanken · 23 December 2005, 07:19 AM

Great stuff, Al! Hell, we could be mistaken for a serious watch forum now!

23 December 2005, 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gedanken

Great stuff, Al! Hell, we could be mistaken for a serious watch forum now!

No chance of that with JJ around. Oooops, I mean, all of us here as members.

Rockrolex · 23 December 2005, 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gedanken

Great stuff, Al! Hell, we could be mistaken for a serious watch forum now!

OMG. If that were to happen I might have to ban myself.

Gedanken · 23 December 2005, 07:34 AM

Oh yeah. Forgot that we're supposed to completely lose our sense of humour.

I've been looking at the diagrams, and I still can't see the key differences between the Incabloc and Kif, especially since the kit watch's spring looks like a Kif. Could any of you guys take me through it s-l-o-w-l-y?

19 December 2005, 06:31 AM	#1
---- Guest Posts: n/a	Shock Protection JJ's thread on Rolex v ETA had some comments in it by Padi on shock protection. I have become familiar with some of the different styles out there, so thought I would present some pictures of a few for your reference. I am certainly no expert on this, so just some observations I've made on the various types I've seen personally....... Shock protection is designed to allow the shaft (pivot) of the balance to move under a shock, reducing the chance of damage, but to also bring it back in it's proper place. I found this diagram that shows some section views of what this looks like. The two main players in this area are Incabloc and Kif. I have found some information from the 50's to show what their respective "signature" style of shock absorber design looks like. First, the "traditional" Incabloc design. And this is the original Kif design. The first photo is from a vintage Bulova watch movement that I have taken apart to clean, lubricate, and hopefully get back running again. It's a Caliber 10BT.....note the lack of any shock protection.......at least that I can see...... In my view this is not good at all, as there is a chance that a hard shock could break the balance pivot. The next is from my Seiko 5 - I cracked the case to take this photo of the 7S26 movement. It has shock protection, but it looks quite crude in it's construction - certainly a good movement, but you can see why it's not expensive. I don't recognize this design, so it is likely Seiko's own. The next is from my project watch. It shows the Incabloc system used on this particular 2801 hand wound movement. Some may mistake this for an older style Kif shock protection, with the "clover" shaped spring. I can tell you that this one is a challenge to work with, as you have to bend the outside diameter of the spring down over the jewel, and then hold it there as you rotate it into the grooves to keep it in place. This design is the Incabloc Novadiac system. Here's a different photo of the same unit....... The Incabloc that most are used to seeing is like the one shown in this ETA2836 that just arrived this week for my next project watch. This is an automatic movement from ETA, complete with day and date complications. It shows the lyre shaped spring that holds the jewel in place. Note the difference between the style used in the 2801 and 2836 - the 2801's spring has 3 points of contact with the jewel, where the 2836's style has only two points (one on either side of the jewel). Theoretically, the style with 3 points of contact should center the jewel better after a shock. Of course with these kinds of things, I'm sure there are many trade-offs in the designs. Only the manufacturer's know the real details, so I'm just speculating on some obvious points here. One thing that has crossed my mind is the effective spring length between these two designs - it may be the the spring with 2 points of contact can travel further out of position than the other can...... Here is a shot of the shock protection in my Glashutte Original, Caliber 65..... It appears to be the standard Incabloc style. This last photo of mine shows my JLC Master Moon Caliber 891's shock protection, which is the same style that you will find in a modern Rolex movement. This is the current Kif design, which looks a lot like the Incabloc at first glance, but then you can see a difference. It has 3 points of contact on the jewel rather than 2. However, it is clipped in place like the Incabloc standard design is, so I'm sure this is easier to work with than the Novadiac (old Kif) style would be. Now I have this image of a Rolex 3135 movement, where you can see that the shock protection is the same as in my JLC - the "newer" Kif style. So, I hope this will help you all recognize what the different types of shock protection look like, as they can easily be confused if you don't look at them closely.

19 December 2005, 09:37 AM	#2
G Shearing Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Canadian NW Posts: 176	Excellent post... Very informative.

19 December 2005, 10:26 AM	#3
mailman TRF Moderator & DATE-JUST41 2024 Patron Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: . Watch: 126610LN Posts: 35,374	Thanks Al. It's always nice to put a picture with words. Sometimes it's easier to comprehend. __________________ JJ

19 December 2005, 11:09 AM	#4
maverick Banned Join Date: May 2005 Real Name: maverick Location: Prescott Watch: Rolex Posts: 1,180	Great post It shows why the KIF is superior. =) maverick

19 December 2005, 03:02 PM	#6
JJ Irani Fondly Remembered Join Date: May 2005 Real Name: JJ Location: Auckland, NZ Watch: ALL SOLD!! Posts: 74,320	Thanks, Al!! Great post, Al....that was very informative and educational!! Since we are on the subject, I would also like to know what kind of system Panerai uses. Please oblige if you know. Thanks. Cheers - JJ __________________ Words fail me in expressing my utmost thanks to ALL of you for this wonderful support during my hour of need!! I firmly believe that my time on planet earth is NOT yet up!! I shall fight this to the very end.......and WIN!! Last edited by JJ Irani; 19 December 2005 at 03:07 PM..

19 December 2005, 11:17 AM	#5
Earl "TRF" Member Join Date: May 2005 Real Name: Who Me? Location: Northern Virginia Watch: out Posts: 4,616	I enjoyed that alot good post :o)

19 December 2005, 03:14 PM	#7
JuniorPhatFarm Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 40	Thanks! Good post.

19 December 2005, 10:46 PM	#10
padi56 "TRF" Life Patron Join Date: Jun 2005 Real Name: Peter Location: Llanfairpwllgwyng Watch: ing you. Posts: 52,334	Great information Al Just two main players left now in all but Japanese watches Kif and Incabloc The Jap system looks remarkably like the Incabloc,at one time nearly every manufacturer had there own name. for the system they used here is a few below.And on most of the ETA movements different grades of shock protection, like from the bottom grade 2824 to top grade chronometer movements 2824-2T.If I remember correct the KIF system came in around 1930,think the KIf system is more suited to the slimmer type movements,think Incabloc came slightly later. Antichoc 102 Bemus Bidlingmaier Bigalu Brac Bulova Cimier Lapanouse Combilager Contrachoc Cortebert Spirofix Cymaflex Diac Durobloc DuroswingFarr-Intex. Emo Antichoc Eterna Fixmobil Duofix Forster General. Neutro Shock Girocap Hercules Inbterco Incabloc Incastar Intex Junghans Kienzle Kif "A" Flector Kif Protechoc Kif Trior Liengme Shockstop Lubrifix Master Shock Medaflex Microflex Monorex 53 Novochoc A & B Oris Parechoc Protax Resochoc Resomatic Ruby Shock Rufarex Shock Resist Shock Stabil Simrex Super Shock Resist Ultrabloc Unichoc Unisafe Uwersi-Vufe,Diashock Vibrax Vibrochoc __________________ ICom Pro3 All posts are my own opinion and my opinion only. "The clock of life is wound but once, and no man has the power to tell just when the hands will stop. Now is the only time you actually own the time, Place no faith in time, for the clock may soon be still for ever." Good Judgement comes from experience,experience comes from Bad Judgement,.Buy quality, cry once; buy cheap, cry again and again. www.mc0yad.club Second in command CEO and left handed watch winder

19 December 2005, 11:35 PM	#11
Atomic Guest Posts: n/a	Wow, someone had a slow weekend! Great post Al. Informative and illustrative too! Awesome stuff.

20 December 2005, 01:14 AM	#12
dman Lifetime TRF Patron Join Date: May 2005 Real Name: Daren Location: Austin Watch: the road Posts: 13,583	Awesome post Al!! __________________ You either get it or you don't, if you have to ask, YOU DON'T!! I really hope that midget cop doesn't find me in Kokomo.

20 December 2005, 02:59 AM	#15
JJ Irani Fondly Remembered Join Date: May 2005 Real Name: JJ Location: Auckland, NZ Watch: ALL SOLD!! Posts: 74,320	Hey Mods, Can I request one of you to place all the info and images in Al's post under Resources on our forum? Useful ready reference whenever we need it. Thanks - JJ __________________ Words fail me in expressing my utmost thanks to ALL of you for this wonderful support during my hour of need!! I firmly believe that my time on planet earth is NOT yet up!! I shall fight this to the very end.......and WIN!!

23 December 2005, 07:19 AM	#18
Gedanken "TRF" Member Join Date: May 2005 Real Name: Sir Location: Melbourne Watch: F-series SD Posts: 8,589	Great stuff, Al! Hell, we could be mistaken for a serious watch forum now! __________________ You buy a Casio to make sure you're on time; you wear a Rolex because you don't have to be on time.

23 December 2005, 07:34 AM	#21
Gedanken "TRF" Member Join Date: May 2005 Real Name: Sir Location: Melbourne Watch: F-series SD Posts: 8,589	Oh yeah. Forgot that we're supposed to completely lose our sense of humour. I've been looking at the diagrams, and I still can't see the key differences between the Incabloc and Kif, especially since the kit watch's spring looks like a Kif. Could any of you guys take me through it s-l-o-w-l-y? __________________ You buy a Casio to make sure you're on time; you wear a Rolex because you don't have to be on time.

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