ROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEX

Orchi · 28 March 2010, 10:59 PM

Err...here's the little project that Orchi
is doing that has kept Orchi quite busy of late...

The ORIGINAL Rolex watch cases for Ref 5512...5513 n 1680...
with ROUNDED CROWN GUARDS...circa from about MID 60s to 1980 or so...
should be having EDZACHARY these...Original Rolex features:-

(NOTE: These Rounded Crown Guards may seems to be similar...
but they are actually NOT...)

1. Original Rolex Case Ref n Serial # fonts MUST NOT have...
LONG n EQUAL length with the Middle stroke of..."E"
The Middle Stroke MUST NOT be EQUAL in length...in "E"

The Middle Stroke of "E" MUST be...SHORTER.
along with the other fonts that MUST be consistent to ROLEX...
original variations of case stamping fonts...

2. At the back of the ROUNDED CROWN GUARDS...
there MUST be visible shape on this..."]" or "["
on the BASELINE of the lugs...to the watch case...
seen from BEHIND the backcase...

The BASELINE profile...
with PERPENDICULAR angle of Flanges...(90 degree)
MUST look like this..."[" or "]"...
depending on either the watch crown guards are seen...
from LEFT to RIGHT...

IF this BASELINE profile is looking like the one found with Ref 1665 DRSD or SD...
or with WIDER angle flanges slanting away from the PERPENDICULAR Baseline...

...*** WATCH OUT ***...

the watch case is...FAKEEEEE.

Here are the examples of ORIGINAL Rolex watch cases...
for Ref 551X n 1680 Sub...as well as 1665 SD for comparisons...
of the said BASELINE profile...
which can be easily seen from behind...
at the base of the Crown Guards...

Ref 1665 DRSD or SD...
with BASELINE profile(WIDER angle Flanges)...
NOT having the PERPENDICULAR Flanges...
at the base of the Crown Guards...to the watch case.

Ref 1680 RED or White Sub...
with BASELINE profile having PERPENDICULAR Flanges...
like "[" or "]"...
on the base of the Crown Guards...to the watch case...
seen from behind the backcase...

Ref 5512...n 5513 Sub...
From the Front...Topside or Sideways...
these ROUNDED Crown Guards...may be looking slightly different...
due to variation of production period or later Polishing works...
BUT from BEHIND...
the BASELINE MUST be the same...with Ref 1680...
having the PERPENDICULAR Flanges..."[" or "]"...
on the base of the Crown Guards...
seen from behind the caseback...

You won't see the REAL difference from any other angles...
they may look similar...

BUT from behind the backcase...VOILA...!!!

Here are the pictures showing exactly that...
ALL Original Rolex watch cases...
should have the...SHORT Middle Stroke of "E"...
It should NOT have the Middle Stroke in EQUAL length...

NO Exception:
The Middle Stroke MUST NOT be of EQUAL in length...
thus the so called...LONG Middle Stroke "E".

THESE here are pictures showing the 5512...5513...1680...
found in eBay...to have FAKEEEEEE...watch cases...
being sold from Hong Kong mostly...

The irony?...the relevant Seller(s) could also be members...
n lurkers in VRF...?

http://cgi.ebay.com/1970-Rolex-Subma...item3efdcde3be

http://cgi.ebay.com/Rolex-Submariner...#ht_6323wt_958

http://shop.ebay.com.au/time_holder/..._sop=10&_rdc=1

The EXPERTS have already known about these facts...for years...
BUT Orchi hopes that the Newcomers to TRF...
could be well alerted...accordingly...

IF Orchi had done this little project before September 2009...
one of Orchi's buddies in here...would NOT have gotten burnt...
ending up with a "1680" Submariner with FAKEEEE...watch case.

Very Sorry for this LONG winded Post...
IF this little project of Orchi offends the freaking Seller(s)...
from Hong Kong or elsewhere...

So be it...

NOTE: All pictures are except from VRF Market...
with exception of those showing...
the FAKEEE watch cases...from eBay.

Best regards
Orchi.

mcjp6 · 28 March 2010, 11:31 PM

I would have to say that is a brilliant post.......

Safetrends · 28 March 2010, 11:39 PM

A lot to understand and take in, however it is important to learn this if we are going to buy vintage watches.

Let me understand what you are pointing out

The E has a long stroke on the top and bottom and a short stroke in the middle if I am reading this correct?

youngr · 29 March 2010, 12:23 AM

Many thanks for the post always good info to have.

marcinthemiddle · 29 March 2010, 12:29 AM

Thanks, Orchi! It must've taken a while to get all the infopics compiled into this post....
Nice Sunday morning read!

!

Orchi · 29 March 2010, 01:09 AM

Err...looking at BASELINE profile of the Crown Guards...from behind...
of this Original Ref 1665 SD...

Here's looking at BASELINE profile of the Crown Guards...from behind...
of this Original Ref 5513 SUB...with ROUNDED Crown Guards.

Here's looking at BASELINE profile of the Crown Guards...from behind...
of this Original Ref 1680 SUB...with ROUNDED Crown Guards...

On the BASELINE of the Crown Guards of 551X n 1680 SUB watch cases...
You will find "[" n "]"...from behind...

The FAKEEEE watch cases...do NOT have this "[" shape...
at the BASELINE profile of its Crown Guards...

FAKEEE "1680" Watch case...

Best regards
Orchi.

Orchi · 29 March 2010, 01:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Safetrends

A lot to understand and take in, however it is important to learn this if we are going to buy vintage watches.

Let me understand what you are pointing out

The E has a long stroke on the top and bottom and a short stroke in the middle if I am reading this correct?

Err buddy David...YES...NO EXCEPTION...

ALL the Strokes in "E"...MUST NOT be exactly EQUAL in length...
The Middle Stroke of "E"...has to be SHORTER...

Safetrends · 29 March 2010, 01:26 AM

Post number six is really clear, thanks. You rock!

rfknauss · 29 March 2010, 01:43 AM

Orchi, as usual, I always learn something from your posts. Thank you very much for increasing my knowledge of Rolex watches.

Dilemma · 29 March 2010, 01:46 AM

springer · 29 March 2010, 01:54 AM

Good post orchi. And not to confuse the crown guards with the highly-counterfeited vintage GMT/Explorer II's with Submariners, when viewing the back of the GMT Explorer II crown guards, the cut-out is "V" shaped like on the photos of Orchi's SeaDweller, and not cut at 90 degree angles.

The first attached is a pic of a genuine, vintage GMT depicting the back of the crown guards. The photo-shopped white lines highlight the "V" shape of the crown guards. The second pic is also of a genuine GMT.

STEELINOX · 29 March 2010, 02:00 AM

"illuminating" info Orchi !

Alexus · 29 March 2010, 06:31 AM

thanks! great info

MikeyTX · 29 March 2010, 07:23 AM

Excellent info Orchi. I thank you. Another masterful tutorial for my "Orchi file."

TSKDUS · 29 March 2010, 02:03 PM

That is great information and learning opportunity. Thanks for sharing, Orchi! Will you be considering a next segment for the next generation Submariners (16800's)? Cheers

ParisDakarBmw · 29 March 2010, 03:12 PM

Thanks! Orchi

MitchSteel · 30 March 2010, 03:43 AM

Excellent.Thank you, Orchi.

sergio27 · 31 March 2010, 04:40 AM

Orchi thank you, I learned something today. Now I am happy

hng · 26 April 2010, 12:14 PM

I was searching for 1680 info as I plan to acquire one and come acroos this great info. Thanks Orchi!

Orchi · 27 April 2010, 12:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dilemma

Err buddy Dilemma...sorry for missing your post...n this late response...

The lug holes are too far inside...thus NOT correct.

rva33145 · 6 August 2011, 12:03 PM

Very helpful. Thanks.

MikeyTX · 6 August 2011, 02:09 PM

Holy watch spring Batman That took a lot of reading

Payesrob · 19 November 2011, 09:07 AM

Interesting, mainly because I own one and i love it

Freelance · 1 December 2011, 04:04 PM

Any chance the broken Photobucket photo links can be fixed on this tread?

dieseldragon · 8 December 2011, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freelance

Any chance the broken Photobucket photo links can be fixed on this tread?

X2 please!

Wacker23 · 2 July 2012, 12:08 PM

Wow very good info. Thanku

Maxbliss888 · 17 August 2012, 04:47 PM

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ROLEX-VINTAG...item2ebfd6ae31

IS this a fake?

Silvio Mosiello · 17 August 2012, 05:02 PM

Thanks good read!

Submarino · 18 August 2012, 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maxbliss888

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ROLEX-VINTAG...item2ebfd6ae31

IS this a fake?

Per Orchi's observations it appears to be legit. Important to check the serial numbers, ref. number and close-ups of the dial.

katana · 10 September 2012, 04:10 AM

Really good post, also work that you have done. You scared me, though I know that my 1680 is genuine, so I had to compare .... And all ended bra.Tack Orchi.

Paradis

28 March 2010, 10:59 PM	#1
Orchi Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Malaysia Posts: 2,960	TIPs to Spot FAKE Ref 5512..5513 n 1680 SUBMARINER watch cases.. Err...here's the little project that Orchi is doing that has kept Orchi quite busy of late... The ORIGINAL Rolex watch cases for Ref 5512...5513 n 1680... with ROUNDED CROWN GUARDS...circa from about MID 60s to 1980 or so... should be having EDZACHARY these...Original Rolex features:- (NOTE: These Rounded Crown Guards may seems to be similar... but they are actually NOT...) 1. Original Rolex Case Ref n Serial # fonts MUST NOT have... LONG n EQUAL length with the Middle stroke of..."E" The Middle Stroke MUST NOT be EQUAL in length...in "E" The Middle Stroke of "E" MUST be...SHORTER. along with the other fonts that MUST be consistent to ROLEX... original variations of case stamping fonts... 2. At the back of the ROUNDED CROWN GUARDS... there MUST be visible shape on this..."]" or "[" on the BASELINE of the lugs...to the watch case... seen from BEHIND the backcase... The BASELINE profile... with PERPENDICULAR angle of Flanges...(90 degree) MUST look like this..."[" or "]"... depending on either the watch crown guards are seen... from LEFT to RIGHT... IF this BASELINE profile is looking like the one found with Ref 1665 DRSD or SD... or with WIDER angle flanges slanting away from the PERPENDICULAR Baseline... ...* WATCH OUT *... the watch case is...FAKEEEEE. Here are the examples of ORIGINAL Rolex watch cases... for Ref 551X n 1680 Sub...as well as 1665 SD for comparisons... of the said BASELINE profile... which can be easily seen from behind... at the base of the Crown Guards... Ref 1665 DRSD or SD... with BASELINE profile(WIDER angle Flanges)... NOT having the PERPENDICULAR Flanges... at the base of the Crown Guards...to the watch case. Ref 1680 RED or White Sub... with BASELINE profile having PERPENDICULAR Flanges... like "[" or "]"... on the base of the Crown Guards...to the watch case... seen from behind the backcase... Ref 5512...n 5513 Sub... From the Front...Topside or Sideways... these ROUNDED Crown Guards...may be looking slightly different... due to variation of production period or later Polishing works... BUT from BEHIND... the BASELINE MUST be the same...with Ref 1680... having the PERPENDICULAR Flanges..."[" or "]"... on the base of the Crown Guards... seen from behind the caseback... You won't see the REAL difference from any other angles... they may look similar... BUT from behind the backcase...VOILA...!!! Here are the pictures showing exactly that... ALL Original Rolex watch cases... should have the...SHORT Middle Stroke of "E"... It should NOT have the Middle Stroke in EQUAL length... NO Exception: The Middle Stroke MUST NOT be of EQUAL in length... thus the so called...LONG Middle Stroke "E". THESE here are pictures showing the 5512...5513...1680... found in eBay...to have FAKEEEEEE...watch cases... being sold from Hong Kong mostly... The irony?...the relevant Seller(s) could also be members... n lurkers in VRF...? http://cgi.ebay.com/1970-Rolex-Subma...item3efdcde3be http://cgi.ebay.com/Rolex-Submariner...#ht_6323wt_958 http://cgi.ebay.com/Rolex-Submariner...#ht_6323wt_958 http://shop.ebay.com.au/time_holder/..._sop=10&_rdc=1 The EXPERTS have already known about these facts...for years... BUT Orchi hopes that the Newcomers to TRF... could be well alerted...accordingly... IF Orchi had done this little project before September 2009... one of Orchi's buddies in here...would NOT have gotten burnt... ending up with a "1680" Submariner with FAKEEEE...watch case. Very Sorry for this LONG winded Post... IF this little project of Orchi offends the freaking Seller(s)... from Hong Kong or elsewhere... So be it... NOTE: All pictures are except from VRF Market... with exception of those showing... the FAKEEE watch cases...from eBay. Best regards Orchi.

29 March 2010, 12:23 AM	#4
youngr "TRF" Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Real Name: Richard Location: England Watch: 16610 & 16710 Posts: 753	Many thanks for the post always good info to have. __________________ SS Submariner Date "V" SS GMT Master II Pepsi "D"

29 March 2010, 01:43 AM	#9
rfknauss 2013 Pledge Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Real Name: Richard Location: Macungie, PA Watch: 5513 Sub, LV Sub Posts: 12,453	Orchi, as usual, I always learn something from your posts. Thank you very much for increasing my knowledge of Rolex watches. __________________ *"Few things in life give man as great a pleasure as wearing a Rolex!"* TRF's "AFTER DARK" Bar & NightClub Patron

29 March 2010, 01:46 AM	#10
Dilemma "TRF" Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Minnesota Posts: 853	Question

29 March 2010, 02:00 AM	#12
STEELINOX 2013 Pledge Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Real Name: Sink-O ! Location: So Cal Posts: 12,566	"illuminating" info Orchi ! __________________ *JJs Bar, Managing Partner / AfterDark Bar & NightClub Co-Founder* Lug Hole Loyalist / Chamfer Line Inspector

28 March 2010, 11:31 PM	#2
mcjp6 2013 Pledge Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Real Name: Michael Location: VK2 - AUS Watch: 5513s Posts: 7,306	I would have to say that is a brilliant post.......

29 March 2010, 12:29 AM	#5
marcinthemiddle Vacated Join Date: Nov 2009 Real Name: Marc Location: Connecticut Watch: PAM 111 'N' Posts: 2,563	Thanks, Orchi! It must've taken a while to get all the infopics compiled into this post.... Nice Sunday morning read! !

29 March 2010, 01:09 AM	#6
Orchi Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Malaysia Posts: 2,960	Err...looking at BASELINE profile of the Crown Guards...from behind... of this Original Ref 1665 SD... Here's looking at BASELINE profile of the Crown Guards...from behind... of this Original Ref 5513 SUB...with ROUNDED Crown Guards. Here's looking at BASELINE profile of the Crown Guards...from behind... of this Original Ref 1680 SUB...with ROUNDED Crown Guards... On the BASELINE of the Crown Guards of 551X n 1680 SUB watch cases... You will find "[" n "]"...from behind... The FAKEEEE watch cases...do NOT have this "[" shape... at the BASELINE profile of its Crown Guards... FAKEEE "1680" Watch case... Best regards Orchi.

29 March 2010, 01:26 AM	#8
Safetrends Banned Join Date: Oct 2009 Real Name: David Walz Location: San Diego CA USA Watch: my hand. :) Posts: 9,247	Post number six is really clear, thanks. You rock!

29 March 2010, 06:31 AM	#13
Alexus "TRF" Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Real Name: Alex Location: Switzerland Watch: SD/PAM74/ExII/SRSD Posts: 293	thanks! great info __________________ The young do not know enough to be prudent, and therefore they attempt the impossible, and achieve it, generation after generation. Pearl.S.Buck

29 March 2010, 07:23 AM	#14
MikeyTX "TRF" Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Real Name: Michael Location: Midlothian, TX Watch: Snow in Chicago Posts: 2,039	Excellent info Orchi. I thank you. Another masterful tutorial for my "Orchi file." __________________ "In God I trust ........ All others pay cash !" Life is like a roll of toilet paper. The closer it gets to the end, the faster it goes.

29 March 2010, 02:03 PM	#15
TSKDUS "TRF" Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: New Jersey Posts: 37	That is great information and learning opportunity. Thanks for sharing, Orchi! Will you be considering a next segment for the next generation Submariners (16800's)? Cheers __________________ TSKDUS Should have discovered TRF much earlier!!! Current use: 16803 / 16550 Cold storage: 16600/1675/16753/16623/116509

29 March 2010, 03:12 PM	#16
ParisDakarBmw "TRF" Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Real Name: Paul Location: Athens, GA Watch: 116610 Sub-C Posts: 6,582	Thanks! Orchi

30 March 2010, 03:43 AM	#17
MitchSteel "TRF" Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Canada Watch: Vintage Rolex Posts: 517	Excellent.Thank you, Orchi. __________________ $C:\Users\Dimitry\Pictures\FortisSpaceLogo-Ownersclub-1.jpg$ "I am a man...but I can change...If I have to....I guess" -Man Prayer

31 March 2010, 04:40 AM	#18
sergio27 "TRF" Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Real Name: Sergio Location: Sunrise, FL Watch: Rolex SD Posts: 90	Orchi thank you, I learned something today. Now I am happy

26 April 2010, 12:14 PM	#19
hng "TRF" Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: N/A Watch: N/A Posts: 577	I was searching for 1680 info as I plan to acquire one and come acroos this great info. Thanks Orchi! __________________ Cartier Tank / "Schumacher" Speedmaster / Suunto Stinger / SS GMT IIc / Sub Date / PAM 367

6 August 2011, 12:03 PM	#21
rva33145 "TRF" Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Real Name: Ralph Valdes Location: coral gables, fl Watch: 18k YachtmasterMOP Posts: 31	Very helpful. Thanks.

6 August 2011, 02:09 PM	#22
MikeyTX "TRF" Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Real Name: Michael Location: Midlothian, TX Watch: Snow in Chicago Posts: 2,039	Holy watch spring Batman That took a lot of reading __________________ "In God I trust ........ All others pay cash !" Life is like a roll of toilet paper. The closer it gets to the end, the faster it goes.

19 November 2011, 09:07 AM	#23
Payesrob "TRF" Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: California Watch: Submariner 116610 Posts: 64	Interesting, mainly because I own one and i love it

1 December 2011, 04:04 PM	#24
Freelance "TRF" Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: USA Watch: All of them Posts: 105	Any chance the broken Photobucket photo links can be fixed on this tread?

2 July 2012, 12:08 PM	#26
Wacker23 "TRF" Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Brooklyn ny Watch: Rolex sub Posts: 381	Wow very good info. Thanku

17 August 2012, 04:47 PM	#27
Maxbliss888 "TRF" Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Hong kong Posts: 7	http://www.ebay.com/itm/ROLEX-VINTAG...item2ebfd6ae31 IS this a fake?

17 August 2012, 05:02 PM	#28
Silvio Mosiello 2013 Pledge Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Real Name: Matthew Location: Miami/NY Watch: YO MOUFFF! Posts: 2,117	Thanks good read! __________________ Collection thus far- DJ 116200 Blue Roman Dial DJ 116200 Silver Stick Dial Roulette Explorer II 16570 Polar Omega SMPO 45.5 Orange GMT IIc SS 116710 Explorer II 216570 Black Submariner LV (Hulk) DJII 116334 Black Stick

10 September 2012, 04:10 AM	#30
katana 2013 Pledge Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Real Name: Paradis Location: Sweden Watch: GMT 1675,Sub.1680 Posts: 708	Really good post, also work that you have done. You scared me, though I know that my 1680 is genuine, so I had to compare .... And all ended bra.Tack Orchi. Paradis __________________

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