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Old 4 September 2011, 03:39 AM   #1
sully7
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ROLEX SUBMARINER Model 116610 (2011 w/date) vs Model 14060M (2011 No date)

I am new to this forum and want any feedback.

I am a proud owner of a Rolex oyster perpetual date since 1996.
I love it.

I want to gift myself a new sub for my birthday.

116610 Pros:
+ I like the ceramic bezel (shiny and attractive)
+ I like the maxi dial
+ I like the 'Parachrom Blu hairspring' with better force protection (shock / magnetic forces)
+ less depreciation over time vs No date model (seems date model is more popular and easier to sell at higher residual value?)

116610 Cons:
- price (2K higher)
- concern about higher cost of ownership (bezel replacement if it gets lost or damaged)
- concern about higher cost of service (more complex parts - Parachrom hairspring)
- larger size (only slightly bigger than 14060M but feels bigger on wrist)


14060M Pros:
+ love the size (nice watch but not quite as flashy as 116610 model)
+ proven reliable engine and very accurate
+ lower cost of ownership over time (e.g. much cheaper bezel replacement and cheaper to service in comparison)

14060M Cons:
- bezel is easier to scratch and not as flashy/elegant as 116610 model
- no date
- more depreciation compared to 116610 due to lower demand for this model


What do you guys think?
Are my assumptions accurate?

Do both watches have 904L steel?

Is the Parachrom hairspring really necessary? I would love the extra protection but if it costs more to own the watch over time then I would prefer the model without it. thoughts? I have heard the 3130 in the 14060M is a very reliable movement that is very shock resistant. I am an every day wearer with minimal shock exposure so the parachrom hairspring is probably not necessary given my lifestyle.

Do you think asking for a 5 to 10% discount (off $6,300 list) at an Authorized dealer is reasonable? or can I get a bigger discount?

I wish they had no date sub had a ceramic bezel and maxi-dial.
That would make my choice easy.

Thoughts?
Thanks in advance for any opinions shared.
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Old 4 September 2011, 03:47 AM   #2
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You cab "ask" for any discount you want...but this is one of Rolexes fastest moving watches. Unless you've bought several watches from the AD you are considering...your discount will be zero。

Not sure where your data cones from re mores service requirement for a hairspring.

FYI the movement in the sub data has changed very very little

Welcome and good luck.
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Old 4 September 2011, 03:51 AM   #3
al_bongo
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My opinion. I own a 14060M and have only ever tried on the 11610LN
The hairspring doesn't matter.
Don't believe you would ever have to replace the ceramic bezel i.e. it is very durable. Having said that have never scratched my Al bezel in over 2 years either.
The movements are virtually identical so would assume the cost of service and ownership are identical bar the initial outlay.
Have never calculated depreciation of 11610 v 14060M. Does it matter so long as you get the watch you want? The 14060M costs less new and second hand cf the sub date.
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Old 4 September 2011, 04:00 AM   #4
sully7
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Thanks guys.
Thanks for correcting my assumptions.
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Old 4 September 2011, 04:00 AM   #5
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buy pre owned, right here... that eliminates much of the cost vs depreciation issues.

spring don't mean a thing... my sub still going without issue for 20 years.

pro for 14060M = lug holes are super cool and all but gone on every other rolex. they make strap changes fun.

a new black aluminum bezel costs $95 (as of sept 2011 from my a/d) = non issue here.

bracelet is the biggest difference between the two, but you didn't mention it? personally i am a fan of the older style.

cheers.

PS i don't think you would have any issue selling either one.
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Old 4 September 2011, 04:08 AM   #6
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I like the both equally.
Own the (old) date and no date currently.
I think over the years the 14060M is a good buy, and indeed the size and comfort to wear are incredible!
Wearing my "no date" this very moment.
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Old 4 September 2011, 04:13 AM   #7
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I'm a date guy but thats just me. I think the upgrades that come with the Sub-C are well worth the extra money.
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Old 4 September 2011, 05:09 AM   #8
subtona
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwalker View Post
I'm a date guy but thats just me. I think the upgrades that come with the Sub-C are well worth the extra money.
i was a date guy too, then i got the sub w/o date, after a few weeks.... i didn't notice anymore and now i'm not a date guy? in a pinch, its a quick check of the phone for a date, but this is seldom needed.

the clean dial really grew on me.


never know till you try?
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File Type: jpg 14060 wrist.jpg (181.0 KB, 1532 views)
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Old 4 September 2011, 05:10 AM   #9
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Quote:
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I'm a date guy but thats just me. I think the upgrades that come with the Sub-C are well worth the extra money.
Agreed.
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Old 4 September 2011, 05:30 AM   #10
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I own both and love both for different reasons ...

For the 14060M I love:

- clean dial
- simplicity
- reliability of 3130 (less moving parts)
- light weight
- less expensive

For the 116610 I like:

- Cerachrom bezel
- Maxi dial
- Blue lume
- Parachrom hairspring (100% amagnetic...though nivarox is still highly amagnetic)
- Bracelet
- Glidelock clasp
- Feels better finished

Cobtrary to what many people will say to you if you have small wrists understand that the 116610 will wear MUCH more comfortable due to glidelock clasp and the facility to remove enough links from the 6 o'clock side to centre the clasp at the centre ...

Good luck with your choice. Try both on and follow your heart. Both are very nice and will serve you well !

















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Old 4 September 2011, 06:16 AM   #11
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Quote:
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Cobtrary to what many people will say to you if you have small wrists understand that the 116610 will wear MUCH more comfortable due to glidelock clasp and the facility to remove enough links from the 6 o'clock side to centre the clasp at the centre ...
+1. I too have a small wrist, and the Sub-C turned out to be a very comfortable watch. I only have 3 and a half links on the 6-hour side, and that makes the clasp to sit dead centered on the underside of my wrist

Get the Sub-C. More attractive, more modern, more advanced And it has a date too...
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Old 4 September 2011, 06:29 AM   #12
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The SubC's got my vote!
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Old 4 September 2011, 07:09 AM   #13
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The Sub C is definitely the way to go. The non-SEL bracelet on the 14060M is the deal-breaker for me. At the current retail price, I don't believe that the 14060M is worth the price of admission any more.

The Glidelock clasp on the Sub C is perfect for warm weather and once you are used to it, I have a difficult time going back to my old 16613 because it does not compare (comfort-wise).

The new Sub C just exudes quality and IMO is the perfect daily wearer. Just my 2 cents.
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Old 4 September 2011, 07:14 AM   #14
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The 14060 has a certain charm
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Old 4 September 2011, 10:32 AM   #15
horseco
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the 14060 is like buying an brand new antique, it was cutting edge 30 years ago or so... but I am sure that's a big draw to the correct buyer... like buying a 1969 Mercedes convertible built last month... (kind of a great thing if your into that)
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Old 4 September 2011, 11:44 AM   #16
hennabav
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Me personally, I would go with the ND Sub. I don't use the date much so to me it doesn't matter. Also, I prefer the less bulky lugs....just wears better than than the newer models.
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Old 4 September 2011, 01:12 PM   #17
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Both watches are great, each have thier own unique characteristics. Question is, do you need a date?

Buy 2nd Hand, better value for your money.
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Old 4 September 2011, 01:31 PM   #18
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Get the 14060M. I have had TWO Sub Cs and I have gone back to the 14060M. People can poo poo the non SEL all they want but they make the watch lighter and have proven themselves for years. Not having the date is a crutch for people if you ask me. There is nothing like looking down at a nice simple dial if you ask me.
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Old 4 September 2011, 01:52 PM   #19
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got the 14060M few months ago. i really like the clean dial. it is the greatest watch as daily-wearer since its light weight.
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Old 4 September 2011, 01:56 PM   #20
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The 14060 is too austere, has more feminine lines, a much thinner bezel assembly, and lacks the quintessential date and magnifier. The 116610 is vastly superior in every way considered, but therefore more expensive too.

Two completely different watches.
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Old 4 September 2011, 03:01 PM   #21
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I've owned both and I'm on the fence as I prefer the SD 16600 as the best of both worlds -- no cyclops, no blingtastic ceramic and it has a date and SEL. I do like many things about the Sub-C (mostly the glidelock adjustment) and I also love the 14060M. One thing I pretty much dislike on both the Sub-C and the newest 14060M is the engraved rehaut. So if I was going for the 14060M, I'd get one made in 2007 or earlier to get the cleaner two-line non-COSC dial without the ROLEXROLEXROLEX engraving on the rehaut. For now, I'll stay happy with my 16600.
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Old 4 September 2011, 03:13 PM   #22
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'feminine'??
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Old 4 September 2011, 08:22 PM   #23
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It's the masculine lines of the 11610 that make it then?
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Old 4 September 2011, 08:25 PM   #24
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Quote:
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Get the 14060M. I have had TWO Sub Cs and I have gone back to the 14060M. People can poo poo the non SEL all they want but they make the watch lighter and have proven themselves for years. Not having the date is a crutch for people if you ask me. There is nothing like looking down at a nice simple dial if you ask me.
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Old 4 September 2011, 09:18 PM   #25
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I'm a date kind of guy, too, and have been wearing a GMT, DJ, or TOG since 1973. I bought a 14060 about 3 years ago and haven't missed the date feature, at all. The no-date is the more classic of the two and you can save quite a bit of money if you pick one up used.

The hairspring issue is really unimportant. I believe Rolex started making their own version and put a name on it. If you own your Rolex for 100 years, I doubt that you'd ever know the difference.
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Old 4 September 2011, 09:36 PM   #26
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The 14060 is a classic and great watch. The case design is timeless and it wears well. Clean and simple dial

The maxi dial on the 116610 does pay tribute to the plexi models of old. The 1680, 5513, 1665. They all have maxi dials as well. For me that was the deal breaker. As much as I loved my 16610, the hour markers look lost on the dial.
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Old 5 September 2011, 10:21 AM   #27
sully7
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Hi Guys,

I decided to buy a Rolex Submariner Model 14060M from an AD.
I bought the watch for $6,000.
The watch has a G serial number.

I am very excited. I pick up the watch in 3 weeks because I put it on lay away.

I am very happy and look forward to wearing it.
Thanks to everyone for sharing their opinions on the pros/cons.
I learned a lot.

David
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Old 5 September 2011, 02:11 PM   #28
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The 14060 has a certain charm
I could not agree more!
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Old 5 September 2011, 02:14 PM   #29
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Quote:
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The 14060 is too austere, has more feminine lines, a much thinner bezel assembly, and lacks the quintessential date and magnifier. The 116610 is vastly superior in every way considered, but therefore more expensive too.

Two completely different watches.
Unbelievable assessment.
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Old 5 September 2011, 02:16 PM   #30
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Quote:
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the 14060 is like buying an brand new antique, it was cutting edge 30 years ago or so... but I am sure that's a big draw to the correct buyer... like buying a 1969 Mercedes convertible built last month... (kind of a great thing if your into that)
The 14060M is not to be equated with an antique Rolex. Its lines may be "old school," but it's cutting edge "under the hood."
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