Manual Winding = Clicking Noice?

[nsolga]

OK - I just reset my watch after checking for accuracy. Running great at + 1.8 sec. / day.

After unscrewing the crown and it pops into first position, I tried to manually wind the crown (clockwise as it is listed in book) and the watch / crown makes a clicking noise and gives some resistance.

I've done this 3/4 times now and popped from position three back to two and to one back to two to make sure nothing was getting hung up.

Is this normal? Is this the clutch making noise telling me that the watch is fully wound and no need for further winding? When I first wound the watch manually (at AD - 19 days ago) it wound freely - about 40 times or more.)

I hope nothing is wrong...

[roadcarver]

I believe when I manually wound my Sea-Dweller it does the same thing. No worries.

[nsolga]

It's just that it wound freely with no resistance the first time at AD....

So, this is new to me.

[SPACE-DWELLER]

When the power reserve is very low (like it would have been when you tried the Sub Date on at the AD), the crown winds more easily than if you are giving it a re-wind whilst the movt. still has like 60 % or so of its full PR.

I don't seem to have noticed any "clicking" noise when I wind the crown clockwise, but if you turn it CCW (= no effect) you will hear a faint clicking noise. Anyway, there should be no cause for worry.

[nsolga]

Clockwise is the direction of the 12 hour marker correct?

[ratmotortom]

Yes

[JostheBoss]

Noticed the same thing on mine. The AD courteously sized the bracelet and set the time and date out of sight when I took my watch the other day. I was thankful, but was robbed of the experience :( So I have unscrewed the crown and wound it 3/4 turns on two occasions thereafter. On the third time tonight I noticed there was definitely more resistance and a clicking noise started. I didn't want to test it any further so I locked it down..

I think it indicates the spring is fully wound and the clicking noise may be some sort of protective breaker against over-winding?! The manual was disappointingly silent about this :(

[nsolga]

To me, I assume it to be a clutch or something. Not sure if this would be a new thing on the M series or not...

Just like Bo says, when turning counter-clockwise (toward 6 o'clock) you do hear a faint click-click-click but, with mine now fully wound and turning toward 12 o'clock you hear a louder click-click-click that is faster and more pronounced.

No matter to me really, just odd that at AD it didn't do it at all and had no resistance vs. the resistance now. It still sets time fine and is running at +1.8 daily so I have no real worries.

Would be interesting to know if it was a clutch or protective mechanism as they do describe that you cannot over wind.

[roadcarver]

My SD ref 16600 has been in the winder for weeks now and I just tried to confirm.

Upon unscrewing the crown, it pops up. I DO hear the faint clicking noise when winding towards the 12 hr marker. I do not hear any noise towards the 6 hr marker.

[Alcan]

Originally Posted by nsolga

Would be interesting to know if it was a clutch or protective mechanism as they do describe that you cannot over wind.

Every automatic wind watch has a slip clutch built into the rotor/mainspring winding mechanism. Think about it. A very active person could easily have enough wrist movement to wind the mainspring to full tension and then some. So what happens then? Continued movement overwinds the watch and breaks the mainspring? Nope, the mainspring is not physically attached to the inside of the barrel, rather it rides in indents in the barrel's inner diameter so it can slip once fully wound.

Here's a pretty good explanation:

"Why it doesn't over-wind itself

On June 16, 1863, Adrien Philippe (of Patek Philippe) is credited with Patent No.58941, for the "slipping mainspring". This particular invention allowed the simultaneous winding of two or more mainspring barrels, certainly a different invention with a different purpose. However, the technology of his invention is said to be the foundation for the development of self-winding wristwatches.

The Slipping Spring

This "slipping" spring allows the mainspring to slide or slip a few degrees relative to the inside of the barrel while still staying fully wound. The end of the slipping spring moves from one groove to another on the inside the barrel, stopping each time, and thus keeping the spring under constant tension.

This attachment of spring steel is sometimes referred to as a “bridle”. This bridle slips along the barrel wall before excess pressure is passed to the going train and causing a defect known as “banking.” Banking occurs when the balance amplitude is too high and the impulse jewel strikes the back of the horns of the pallet fork. The “bridle” must also grip the barrel wall sufficiently to not slip down either too rapidly, or too slowly, a defect known as “mainspring creep” which results in a shortened reserve power time. http://www.bhi.co.uk/hints/automsp.htm The slipping bridle on the outer end of the mainspring is illustrated here. (1). the bridle (in the barrel), (2) maintains outward pressure on the outermost coil of the mainspring (3). At less than full wind, the bridle pressure causes the outer tip of the spring to catch in a notch in the barrel wall (4) and maintain its position. As the mainspring reaches full wind, the outer end of the spring jumps out of the notch and releases tension by slipping across the smooth section of the barrel wall (5) until it catches in the next notch. See the photo illustration at TimeZone"

[nsolga]

So, that makes me feel better... I am a hand talker and move around all the time. I take it after 20 days and a full wind on day 1 of ownership, my Role Sub is and was fully wound when I reset the time today thus, the fast and loud clicking.

Thanks AL!

[watchoutforme]

when winding the watch up to and passed full there should be NO clicking or ruff drag.
3 things come to mind. the crown may be worn, the sliding pinion may be slipping or the barrel is dry of lubrication (TEPA Grease) is recommended.
Any of these problems should be addressed at the time of full service

[Incurable]

I have noticed (much to my dismay) that hand winding my automatic watches, several have undergone some disconcerting changes. My Explorer (which is overdue for a service) used to wind smooth as glass. Now it doesn't. It feels 'gritty' when winding and it's inconsistent to boot. The feeling is that of micro-fine clicks, interspersed w/some 'clicks' of higher resistance making the whole experience frown producing. I do know this, it used to be glass smooth. My newer GMT II is just that, glass smooth. I have a ETA 2824-2 based watch that has progressively been getting worse and worse feeling while winding it. To make the problem worse, it doesn't seem to want to wind properly on my winder. It will stop after a few days. Rotor seems noisy compared to my Rolexes as well. Off to the SC I guess. I hand wind my Valjoux 7750 watch quite often, it is doing fine w/no changes in feel.

My reluctant conclusion is leaning towards... Don't hand wind automatic watches too much. They don't seem to like it. As an occasional, back-up procedure, it's OK. On a daily basis, I'm experiencing some problems.

[nsolga]

OK - now you have me wondering again Donald....

Like I mentioned - only had the sub for 20 days (brand new from AD)... Wound perfect when first held and bought at AD. Just checked time - and running great at 1.8 sec + daily.

Does make clicking noise and has more resistance when winding. Makes now sense to me why there should all of a sudden have drag or noise. Haven't banged, dived, got wet (besides washing once) and does change date and set time correct.

Do I need to take this to RSC? I live in NY (about 45 min for NYC). Could do but, not sure if I need to.


Thanks,

Nick

[watchoutforme]

nsolga,
the clicking should be a warrenty issue, you should feel incresed drag as the watch is wound up but is should feel smooth as glass.

[watchoutforme]

Originally Posted by Incurable

I have noticed (much to my dismay) that hand winding my automatic watches, several have undergone some disconcerting changes. My Explorer (which is overdue for a service) used to wind smooth as glass. Now it doesn't. It feels 'gritty' when winding and it's inconsistent to boot. The feeling is that of micro-fine clicks, interspersed w/some 'clicks' of higher resistance making the whole experience frown producing. I do know this, it used to be glass smooth. My newer GMT II is just that, glass smooth. I have a ETA 2824-2 based watch that has progressively been getting worse and worse feeling while winding it. To make the problem worse, it doesn't seem to want to wind properly on my winder. It will stop after a few days. Rotor seems noisy compared to my Rolexes as well. Off to the SC I guess. I hand wind my Valjoux 7750 watch quite often, it is doing fine w/no changes in feel.

My reluctant conclusion is leaning towards... Don't hand wind automatic watches too much. They don't seem to like it. As an occasional, back-up procedure, it's OK. On a daily basis, I'm experiencing some problems.

Winding a watch up has the same effect on the watch as doing it automaticly, as you wear the watch the auto winder keeps the mainspring as powered up as possible. remember it's important to wear your watch it is adjusted to keep the best time at body tempature.

[Texsubmariner]

Nick, I posed the very same question regarding my GMT IIc last month. You may want to do a search on it. Anyway, the clicks that you hear is the clutch mechanism preventing overwinding. One easy way to test this is to let your watch idle and drain the power reserve. Then manually wind it 20-30 times. I bet you you will hear the clicks after about 15-20 clockwise turns. This means that your watch is fully wound, and does not harm the watch. My other watches and my brother's YM do the same thing.

In short, no worries.

[nsolga]

Thanks Tex, I'll give it a go and let the Sub sit for about 24 hours and try to wind tomorrow night (Sat. morning) and see if it makes any noise and if it does start after 15-20 winds.

I would it a full 40 turns at the AD when I first got it and it was smooth as butter. I was surprised that it was clicking as soon as I wound it today for the first time but, again, I do move around alot so- it might just be full.

However, Don is a watchmaker (as listed) so, if this doesn't work I guess I'm off to RSC NYC - about a 45 min drive (35 miles west).