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21 November 2020, 08:51 AM | #1 |
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5512 meters first 4-liner from 1970 - introduction
Hello, I am new here and recently got my first Vintage Rolex
I am collecting watches for some years now I have pieces from Omega, Oris, Panerai, Hanhart, Tissot and even Zodiac. But just recently I got my first Rolex… I have always been fascinated by vintages Sub’s and GMT’s and during this pandemic I spend more time online as usual and I got more familiar with the history and models. I finally went on a hunt and after 8 months of searching around I finally got my first Submariner a 5512 from 1970 and here is the story. Believe it or not it nearly landed in the trash … but let’s start from the beginning a young waitress bought her very first house via an estate sale in Northern Ontario it was a “fixer upper”, the previous owner died and the family sold the house with all belongings in it. During cleaning and emptying the house she throw out the so called “junk-drawer” in the garbage and only by luck her father saw the watch… he told her that this is a Rolex; but she thought it was an old fake Rolex … however they took the watch to a local jeweler and he convinced her to send it to Rolex Canada which she did. Rolex Canada confirmed the watch is original and Rolex quoted her to service the watch – gladly she denied as Rolex wanted to replace a bunch of parts such as the dial and hands … Through the internet I have connected with her and when she picked up the watch at Rolex Canada in Toronto we’ve met at a vintage watch dealer to get his opinion. Her mom was with her and she was quite funny (side story her mom liked my name because when her kids where little she and her husband used the name Bjoern Borg every time they wanted to smoke a joint … so the kids wouldn’t know what it means… lol) The watch has never been polished and that it has a quite nice dial with the meter first 4-line. The serial number dates the watch to 1970 same does the case back it is stamped inside with 5512 and Q1/1970. Weirdly enough the dealer wanted to buy the watch too but he backed off and I bought the watch from the girl. I paid what I thought is fair and the girl was super happy because I paid her cash and I paid her more than a watch dealer from California offered her. She now can do more renovations in the house and she is just thrilled... I am thrilled too because I finally have my first vintage sub. Now what makes me super excited is that my Rolex must be one of the very last 5512 with the meters first dial… I have read on Hodinkee that the Reference 5512 (Matte Dial, Meters First) was made 1967 to 1969. But my Sub is all original with a 1970 serial number and case back stamped 5512 and Q1/1970… so I would argue that Rolex made the matte dial meters first 4-Liner between 1967 – 1970 and not just 1967 – 1969. I only have a few pictures at this time because the watch is in service right now. I will post more pictures when I get it back in 3-4 weeks. Thanks for reading and glad to be here! You all stay healthy, Bjoern |
21 November 2020, 09:17 AM | #2 |
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That's pretty interesting.. I think I have one of the first with a
#14754XX serial which I date to 1966 but have never taken the case back off to check the stamps there.
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21 November 2020, 09:38 AM | #3 |
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21 November 2020, 10:07 AM | #4 |
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Here is a slightly earlier one with 1.43 serial.
https://cdn2.chrono24.com/images/uhr...j9nvy-Zoom.jpg
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21 November 2020, 10:41 AM | #5 |
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I relied mainly on the vintage watch dealer.p who checked it out for me... he is pretty experienced and reputable. He sells vintage watches himself. His name is Bill Leboeuf in Barrie Ontario. He checked the watch for quite some time and had a lot of good things to say.
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21 November 2020, 11:24 AM | #6 | |
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21 November 2020, 01:00 PM | #7 | |
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30 November 2020, 09:30 AM | #8 | |
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Is the small certificate next to the watch considered the paper. I have one similar to my 66 gilt 5513 and not sure what it is. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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21 November 2020, 09:41 AM | #9 | |
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Congrats, that is a nice 5512! I am not certain that the dial is original to the watch. The bezel insert is not original for that time period. |
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21 November 2020, 09:52 AM | #10 |
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I'm just curious who told you that the watch is unpolished and all original. If it was just found abandoned in a drawer, how would anyone know the history?
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21 November 2020, 12:56 PM | #11 |
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It’s a lovely watch. Post some more photos when you get it back. Most would expect a 5512 or 5513 of that era to have a gilt dial. However, You do see some from this timeline with the Matte dial like yours. The insert should have a Long5, but was likely replaced long ago.
Anyway, enjoy the watch. It has a captivating dial. |
21 November 2020, 01:23 PM | #12 | |
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22 November 2020, 10:59 PM | #13 | |
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Sorry. Gilt 5512's were produced through 1967. Nobody would expect a 5512 of that era to have a gilt dial. |
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21 November 2020, 02:12 PM | #14 |
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Chamfers look polished but who cares its a sweet watch.
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21 November 2020, 02:50 PM | #15 |
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Agree with the spirit Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
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21 November 2020, 02:49 PM | #16 |
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5512 meters first 4-liner from 1970 - introduction
It’s a great story about the seller’s good fortune by listening to her Dad.
Can you imagine if she had said, “Dad, trust me it’s a fake - throw it back in the trash.” Makes you wonder how many Subs have met with that fate upon its owners trip into the hereafter. I appreciate the OP’s willingness to share and hope he can stay patient with the self-appointed arbiters of his new/old Sub. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
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21 November 2020, 02:58 PM | #17 |
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22 November 2020, 12:09 AM | #18 | |
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However, it's clear that many people on this forum are interested in understanding the history of vintage Rolex models, so IMO it's not helpful when people make unfounded historical claims with no evidence, especially when the watch itself empirically contradicts the claims.
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22 November 2020, 02:00 AM | #19 | |
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Serial number ranges are at best guesses / estimates from 1 or 2 collectors who observed patterns among a lot of examples and published their guesses online. Very little about vintage rolex is concrete or definitive and there are definitely odd edge cases / configurations that pop up. In my case I really don't care either way. I should have used the qualifiers of maybe, possibly, or likely... for most of us our vintage watches have had many owners so unless we are the original owner its not possible to tell about the originality. Even those watches passed down in families the children very rarely know if it was serviced or not.. sometimes even the original owners don't know about servicing or if parts were swapped they just did what their jeweler told them to do and enjoyed it.. They weren't as obsessed about the details as this community is today. Enjoy your new watch OP.
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22 November 2020, 02:30 AM | #20 | |
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However, this IS a vintage forum. It’s not Pinterest where people can post the watches they like and leave it at that. Not that you must know what you’re getting into when coming into it. My first posts here showed all too well I knew nothing about these watches, but I spent some time figuring out that this forum was filled with experts and scrutinizing collectors and I was prepared to learn and be overwhelmed and even humbled. Point being, if you’re going to post a vintage watch here, it’s going to be picked-over. It’s not for everyone, but I think we’re all glad this forum operates as it does. |
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22 November 2020, 02:58 AM | #21 | |
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Definitively: service hands, service insert, it's been polished (a few times). Maybe: Dial does look like the lume has been scraped off the plots. It does not look like any attempt at a relume has been made. No Opinion: Caseback/serial number: Possibly correct / original. No way to be sure.
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22 November 2020, 03:09 AM | #22 | |
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At the risk of being cynical, I just always find it odd that a lot of these so-called "original owner/found in a drawer" watches happens to have replaced parts, modifications done, and a confusing representation of parts. |
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28 November 2020, 06:23 AM | #23 |
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two more :)
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21 November 2020, 03:14 PM | #24 |
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First rule of fight club - never say your watch is awesome
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21 November 2020, 03:23 PM | #25 |
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That is definitely my "coolest watch I've seen today".
The back story alone makes it amazing. I hope you enjoy it. Congratulations! |
21 November 2020, 07:02 PM | #26 |
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5512 meters first 4-liner from 1970 - introduction
Hello and a warm welcome OP!
Many thanks for sharing this great story! Congratulations for the watch, for which you received a service quotation from Rolex Canada. Maybe not everybody understands what that means or implies. Before signing the Rolex service quotation, you have to tell them in writing (best on their quotation) what they must NOT do during the service! |
21 November 2020, 10:07 PM | #27 |
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Hey Dan S, I just read your post above. Can you explain the acceptable cutoff date of a gilt to a MF for a 5512/5513?
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22 November 2020, 12:01 AM | #28 | |
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Really, I was just sympathizing with you in my post because the thread had bifurcated into two parallel paths, with some people commenting on the OP watch and some (like you) commenting on the watch shown in the second post.
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21 November 2020, 11:06 PM | #29 |
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Why are the (very greenish) hands in dreadful shape, while the dial seems to be in very good shape (the lume is so white, and appears flat. Possible washing, or relume?). This coupled with a service bezel, and the mystery of a 1970 case-back with a 1966/67 serial number, makes for a very confusing/suspicious watch.
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22 November 2020, 02:47 AM | #30 | |
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Something is definitely up with the dial/hands, and it's far from unpolished. All that is OK, as long as the OP hasn't been misled or told otherwise, of course. As for whether the serial is correct for meters-first, definitely close, so who knows. Seen some around 2.3 million, so not a super stretch at 2.4. (Apologies, OP. We can be a brutally honest bunch on this forum.) |
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