Czapek

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by JR16

I totally agree. I’ve bought a few watches from them over the years and they are top notch- friendly, professional, trustworthy etc. But that comes at a cost. Also, to play devil’s advocate, I would imagine it can be tough to decide on pricing during periods when the market is in acute flux or trying to price a watch w low production numbers - must be harder to weigh demand vs supply in the latter case- so they see people waiting 1-2 years to get a new antartique so they try to figure out how much of a premium they can charge for someone to walk out of the store same day (or get it next day in the mail).


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For sure also you have to take note of where you are…in a shopping “mall” in Naples Florida. Bargain hunters need not apply.

[rag5178]

Exquisite Timepieces was also taking preorders for Antarctique directly from Czapek at that time. It was smart business for them to price preowned pieces at excessively high price points. Bring someone in, let them try it on, tell them the preowned price, “BUT WAIT”, just for my loyal customers, we are taking preorders and you can pick one up brand new for half price if you’re willing to wait!

[Bmats]

I’ve never had a problems with them. Got two new purchases — one cheaper and one more expensive. I thought the service was great and would buy again.

Isn’t it normal for stores to price preowned stuff at what the market will bear? But the new stuff they’re authorized dealers for at regular MSRP? Unless I’m missing something, that seems to be what everyone does — Rolex ADs in particular.


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[charger_vital]

I can abide people not loving the Czapek. They should love them, but I understand that people don’t always make good decisions.

When people say things like, “alpine eagle is better than (fill in the blank)” Or “CW is (anything other than just another unoriginal watch),” however, they lose credibility with me.

Can’t trust people with bad taste layered on top of poor decision making.


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[charger_vital]

Originally Posted by Schweinwerfer

In my book it should cost a tad more than the new Ingenieur 40.

Time to find a new book.


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[GB-man]

Originally Posted by charger_vital

I can abide people not loving the Czapek. They should love them, but I understand that people don’t always make good decisions.

When people say things like, “alpine eagle is better than (fill in the blank)” Or “CW is (anything other than just another unoriginal watch),” however, they lose credibility with me.

Can’t trust people with bad taste layered on top of poor decision making.


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Idk man that AE xps is pretty nice. I’m not a huge fan of the overall design behind the AE but they did it right with the xps. I’d probably still prefer the PF micro as I feel the AE remains too derivative and not as connected to their heritage model as they lead people to believe.

CW just isn’t for me at all. I’ll give you that.

[dchang81]

Yes jangly bracelet and and derivative design is good taste. Different strokes for different folks.

[charger_vital]

Originally Posted by dchang81

Yes jangly bracelet and and derivative design is good taste. Different strokes for different folks.

So you ordered one and called it a nice watch because you have bad taste?


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[dchang81]

I guess I don't know if your pompous posts are facetious or serious.

[charger_vital]

Originally Posted by dchang81

I guess I don't know if your pompous posts are facetious or serious.

Ok.


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[AlyRba]

So when someone who has both the Antarctique and AE 41m regular edition and has handled XPS in person few times says that the AE XPS is superior to Antarctique as an overall product, that person cannot be trusted as having a credible opinion. Wow. This forum does surely attract narcissists.

[charger_vital]

Originally Posted by AlyRba

So when someone who has both the Antarctique and AE 41m regular edition and has handled XPS in person few times says that the AE XPS is superior to Antarctique as an overall product, that person cannot be trusted as having a credible opinion. Wow. This forum does surely attract narcissists.

Haha. Well I do give you partial credit for getting the Czapek. So maybe we meet in the middle and say that your taste in watches is half credible. But you’re on thin ice.


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[charger_vital]

Originally Posted by GB-man

Idk man that AE xps is pretty nice. I’m not a huge fan of the overall design behind the AE but they did it right with the xps. I’d probably still prefer the PF micro as I feel the AE remains too derivative and not as connected to their heritage model as they lead people to believe.

CW just isn’t for me at all. I’ll give you that.

Totally valid. And agreed on all points. One nice thing I will say about the AE is the dials themselves (not including the indices) are striking. Just wish that they would make a nice looking watch to case it in. The Parmagiani PF models are fantastic.

[WatchEater666]

Originally Posted by charger_vital

So you ordered one and called it a nice watch because you have bad taste?


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He’s right. The bracelet is definitely lacking compared to some other sports watches.

[charger_vital]

Originally Posted by WatchEater666

He’s right. The bracelet is definitely lacking compared to some other sports watches.

Meh... better than some lacking compared to others. That's an abstract idea which might be interesting to discuss another time.

Dchang's point was slightly different, however. He wasn't rating or comparing the bracelet to other watches. His point was that the Czapek is in "bad taste" because the bracelet is "jangly." (I think that was his point anyway... we have a history of speaking past each other because my posts irritate him and I don't always fully understand his scattered responses).

Anyway, personally I haven't found his "jangly" premise to be true. I also probably read it the same place he did. But from personal experience - not having cancelled my order - it's less jangly than an Oyster bracelet, which i don't find to be jangly either.

To be honest though, even if it were jangly, it doesn't matter to me. The grandaddy Nautilus is somewhat jangly and get's more so as it ages. The Speedmaster has a notoriously jangly bracelet. I think both of those are perfectly tasteful watches. As is the jangle-free Czapek.

[Bug04]

Years go by, but this industry remains strange: complaints seem “selective” … we have probably the “benchmark” of luxury sport watches that is only 50 m wr, a pure oxymoron, but it seems not an issue, and comparative discussions are focused on other aspects.

As regards bracelet, I am not sure why the Czapek should lack compared to other high end “luxury sport watches”: finishing are top (the chamfering is present inside and absent outside so it is a conscious decision, design driven and not cost saving driven, one could like or not the result but it is a subjective aesthetic matter), connection to case is slightly loose for me but the quick release is definitely a plus that, for example, Nautilus and RO do not have which is a huge minus for them (Overseas yes, and for me is the top in the sector)

Originally Posted by WatchEater666

He’s right. The bracelet is definitely lacking compared to some other sports watches.

[GB-man]

I can tell you why easily Bug. This is a hobby strictly for mildly ocd lunatics and eccentrics as much as it is anything. No watch is safe from scrutiny and the 20-30k luxury sport watch is a segment more crowded than a Manhattan Sunday brunch. There’s no shortage of alternatives and anyone who enters this category knows what they are up against.

Another way to look at it is psychologically people who own an appreciating asset are less likely to feel/talk negatively about it. Now that most watches are back to anything but appreciating items the laundry is being aired more often like a wife letting her husband know he’s actually a prick now that he’s no longer paying the bills lol

[Bug04]

[thesingularity7]

Originally Posted by GB-man

I can tell you why easily Bug. This is a hobby strictly for mildly ocd lunatics and eccentrics as much as it is anything. No watch is safe from scrutiny and the 20-30k luxury sport watch is a segment more crowded than a Manhattan Sunday brunch. There’s no shortage of alternatives and anyone who enters this category knows what they are up against.

Another way to look at it is psychologically people who own an appreciating asset are less likely to feel/talk negatively about it. Now that most watches are back to anything but appreciating items the laundry is being aired more often like a wife letting her husband know he’s actually a prick now that he’s no longer paying the bills lol

[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by GB-man

I can tell you why easily Bug. This is a hobby strictly for mildly ocd lunatics and...

Great post

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[dchang81]

Originally Posted by charger_vital

Meh... better than some lacking compared to others. That's an abstract idea which might be interesting to discuss another time.

Dchang's point was slightly different, however. He wasn't rating or comparing the bracelet to other watches. His point was that the Czapek is in "bad taste" because the bracelet is "jangly." (I think that was his point anyway... we have a history of speaking past each other because my posts irritate him and I don't always fully understand his scattered responses).

Anyway, personally I haven't found his "jangly" premise to be true. I also probably read it the same place he did. But from personal experience - not having cancelled my order - it's less jangly than an Oyster bracelet, which i don't find to be jangly either.

To be honest though, even if it were jangly, it doesn't matter to me. The grandaddy Nautilus is somewhat jangly and get's more so as it ages. The Speedmaster has a notoriously jangly bracelet. I think both of those are perfectly tasteful watches. As is the jangle-free Czapek.

I dont even know why I'm bothering responding but anyways here it goes. I suppose my responses are scattered if they don't align with your opinion. That was my point, these are personal preferences and opinions but for some reason yours is supposed to supercede everyone else's. That's why I couldn't tell if you were being facetious or serious, apparently they were serious replies.

As far as the bracelet, I did check out the czapek and was not a fan of the bracelet. Others are fine with it. Despite the bracelet I can still consider the watch to be nice, there is still a lot to like. To say there was nothing wrong with it, I mean czapek was compelled to change the tolerances, and some poster(s) even put tape on the bar to lessen the play. I do think that the nautilus bracelet isn't great either but I liked the rest of the package enough to have purchased one.

It seems pompous to think that your opinion is the only correct one even though it is an opinion.

[charger_vital]

Originally Posted by dchang81

I dont even know why I'm bothering responding but anyways here it goes. I suppose my responses are scattered if they don't align with your opinion. That was my point, these are personal preferences and opinions but for some reason yours is supposed to supercede everyone else's. That's why I couldn't tell if you were being facetious or serious, apparently they were serious replies.

As far as the bracelet, I did check out the czapek and was not a fan of the bracelet. Others are fine with it. Despite the bracelet I can still consider the watch to be nice, there is still a lot to like. To say there was nothing wrong with it, I mean czapek was compelled to change the tolerances, and some poster(s) even put tape on the bar to lessen the play. I do think that the nautilus bracelet isn't great either but I liked the rest of the package enough to have purchased one.

It seems pompous to think that your opinion is the only correct one even though it is an opinion.

Thanks for the clarity. I was careful in my original post to say ".... they lose all credibility with me." You shouldn't have read that like I've set the standard of credibility for the world. You should have read that exactly as I wrote it...

if you push a Chopard AE over the Czapek, you've lost credibility with me that you have good taste in watches. Saying "someone has lost all credibility with me..." is colloquial way to say you don't believe or trust them.

As for the bracelet. I don't know how they were before Czapek made the changes to improve the bracelet. Maybe they were flimsy back then, but not now.

[Schweinwerfer]

Originally Posted by dchang81

As far as the bracelet, I did check out the czapek and was not a fan of the bracelet. Others are fine with it. Despite the bracelet I can still consider the watch to be nice, there is still a lot to like. To say there was nothing wrong with it, I mean czapek was compelled to change the tolerances, and some poster(s) even put tape on the bar to lessen the play. I do think that the nautilus bracelet isn't great either but I liked the rest of the package enough to have purchased one. .

The Nautilus is the Nautilus and since it is a 50 yrs old design reaching peak popularity only right now it cannot be tampered with. Czapek on the other hand started with a blank page so there are no excuses for the rather average execution of the bracelet. After all, it’s an integrated bracelet watch (design wise, of course there is a quick release system) and the design is supposed to highlight that. So why let your USP become your vice, Czapek?

I was rather underwhelmed with the VCO 4500V because of the missing taper of the bracelet. Guess what, they fixed it with the 4520V.

[Bug04]

Different views … I find the previous 4500 bracelet better fitting with the watch overall image than the new tapered one on 4520. And it’s merely an aesthetic, (therefore subjective) matter, considering that finiture and components are the same (actually, minor changes occurred also on the quick release).

On Czapek, the “rather average execution of bracelet” is your view, fair but not the absolute truth. It seems that you have not been satisfied with the watch. It happens, and as someone mentioned above, in this price range of luxury sporty watches there are many alternatives, each of them not exempt from tough critics. I hope you may pick another one that better fits with your views, but be prepared to read elsewhere critics also to that choice. It’s part of this reality …

Originally Posted by Schweinwerfer

The Nautilus is the Nautilus and since it is a 50 yrs old design reaching peak popularity only right now it cannot be tampered with. Czapek on the other hand started with a blank page so there are no excuses for the rather average execution of the bracelet. After all, it’s an integrated bracelet watch (design wise, of course there is a quick release system) and the design is supposed to highlight that. So why let your USP become your vice, Czapek?

I was rather underwhelmed with the VCO 4500V because of the missing taper of the bracelet. Guess what, they fixed it with the 4520V.

[ap1]

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[APPRF]

Christopher Ward really had a big effect on Czapek popularity in my opinion. Did Czapek go for legal proceedings against the designer and CW or will they just let it go.

[Schweinwerfer]

Originally Posted by APPRF

Christopher Ward really had a big effect on Czapek popularity in my opinion. Did Czapek go for legal proceedings against the designer and CW or will they just let it go.

They are designed by the same person!

[thesingularity7]

Originally Posted by APPRF

Christopher Ward really had a big effect on Czapek popularity in my opinion.

Is there any evidence to support this? I find it hard to believe that a $2k watch could have a lasting impact on the market for a ~$25k watch. Sure they look a bit alike, but I also think (and this is my opinion) that the market for integrated bracelet sports watches has a bunch of similar looking watches.

[Chiboy]

Originally Posted by thesingularity7

Is there any evidence to support this? I find it hard to believe that a $2k watch could have a lasting impact on the market for a ~$25k watch. Sure they look a bit alike, but I also think (and this is my opinion) that the market for integrated bracelet sports watches has a bunch of similar looking watches.

Given that very few people would recognize a Czapek to begin with, I’d be surprised if an homage/ripoff/clone would impact buyers’ decisions so much.

[WatchEater666]

It’s way more likely that the APRO falling in price a ton is making people just go for that > Czapek.

The CW isn’t even close. Not a real substitute.