The problem isn’t with Rolex, it is with their ADs.

[Andad]

Originally Posted by padi56

Have to agree if all prospective buyers stopped all this so called AD building relationship stuff, and refused to play these so called AD games then perhaps we could get back to normally.

[Wilco68]

Originally Posted by Harry-57

There is nothing wrong with my Rolex AD so far as my experience with them goes.
It ain't broke here, at least for me, so I wouldn't want to fix it.

This ^^^ for me too.

Picked up the watches I want in a short space of time with no pre-spend, & always nice to pop in to see my AD just for a watch chat.

[Madman37]

If you could via reddit do what they did with the Gamestop stock and get everyone stop buying rolexes until it because so desperate for ADs they need to sell then you will get your watch.

Imagine doing that we should start a reddit thing ha ha

[brandrea]

You’re darn right there’s a problem …. The last time I picked up a watch they didn’t even offer me a diet coke

[Harry-57]

Originally Posted by neverenoughtime

Nobody wants to admit it, but this is 100% accurate.

We all want what we can’t have.

When a difficult to obtain Tudor became easily available I bought it. Until it went into general availability I couldn't be bothered with the inconvenience involved with waiting for it or collecting it. I guess I fall outside the notional 100%.

[Harry-57]

Originally Posted by brandrea

You’re darn right there’s a problem …. The last time I picked up a watch they didn’t even offer me a diet coke

Rolex is addressing this. Next year they won't be an AD.

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by Harry-57

Rolex is addressing this. Next year they won't be an AD.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Madman37]

Originally Posted by Harry-57

When a difficult to obtain Tudor became easily available I bought it. Until it went into general availability I couldn't be bothered with the inconvenience involved with waiting for it or collecting it. I guess I fall outside the notional 100%.

In the UK Tudors go on reduced rrp if you wait long enough.

[GB-man]

I would say having ADs only carry Rolex would solve the problem but in my experience even the boutique stores offer similar service.

I’m old enough now to realize I’m not that important and I don’t care.

[1William]

I get it. You can not buy a watch you want from an AD at msrp when you want. Nothing wrong with wanting and nothing wrong with feeling like it is not fair. But what is.

[Harry-57]

Originally Posted by Madman37

In the UK Tudors go on reduced rrp if you wait long enough.

Try asking Harrods for a discount on their BB Heritage Special Edition (released in 2017) and let us know how much they give you.

[Harry-57]

Originally Posted by Wilco68

always nice to pop in to see my AD just for a watch chat.

It's nice to have a watch dealer which is staffed by WISs, or a HiFi dealer who loves music, or a car dealer stuffed with petrolheads. Could be some of us are just lucky with our choices. It could also be a geographic thing. I suspect it also depends on the people on both sides of the counter.

[Krash]

Originally Posted by njlam

but my question is this: if certain Rolex models are so hard to get, why are there so many available at grey market dealers?
.

It’s elemental. Again, it comes down to demand. There is less demand for watches on the grey market than brand new watches at an AD. Period.

People on this forum often point out the abundant amount of Rolexes on the grey market for sale. Well, it’s because they don’t sell as quickly as the new models at an AD. That’s why they’re available.

But we know Rolex does not like the flippers and I’d guess they’ll continue to take steps to counter them.

Plus, I don’t think the problem is as acute as people on TRF think it is.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[fsprow]

I would say there is no problem at all. People can either buy at market price or not. That price can be higher or lower than MSRP. If Rolex really wanted to eliminate resellers of “new” watches, they would allow their dealers to sell new watches for what the market will bear. And a little competition among dealers would be a good thing. Go to a Porsche dealer and try to buy a GT3RS. They will certainly make one available in time but the price will be substantially more than MSRP. That’s what the word “suggested” means.

[Scottyboy]

Originally Posted by kopi-c

AD are not really the problem per se.

If Rolex HQ could/wanted to end the flipper and resale/grey dealer /scalpers they can but will not.

An example might be that a new watch warranty are non transferable and register only one name/owner at point of sale.

Not sure this could ever work. Once I buy a watch from an AD, it is mine to do whatever I want with it. Not sure your suggestion could or would hold up legally.

[Sephiroth]

I agree there is a problem with ADs - the fact that they lie right to your face. Statements claiming they haven’t seen a Pepsi all year, etc. are absolutely maddening

[Kevin of Larchmont]

Originally Posted by njlam

I've answered your question and I think you choose not to acknowledge it. People have money budgeted for watches, and with Rolex's unattainability, a larger percentage of that budget goes to other watch manufacturers. In addition to this lost market share, the resentment and overall bad feelings engendered are not corporate assets, they are liabilities. Your blind love for the brand may not allow you to see this.
.

I have no doubt it appeals to your vanity to suggest that your watch interests are broader than mine. And I don’t have a blind love for the brand, I have a dislike of unsupported generalizations. And the consensus around here for a long time has been that Rolex sells every watch they make so how are they losing market share? Finally, as others have suggested, this resentment is primarily yours and is not universally shared.

Enjoy your vast array of watches.

[Kevin of Larchmont]

Originally Posted by Devildog

If Rolex sells every watch it makes market share and resentment are irrelevant.

The resentment as you put it only exists amongs forums such as this, and people such as yourself.

Can I ger any Rolex I want from an AD? No. Not a chance.

Do I care? No. Not at all. Its just a watch.

99.99% of the worlds population who have any interest in watches or status will still aspire to own a Rolex.

There is no material damage.

If you carry resentment for a brand becasue you cannot buy one of theor products from an authorised retailer the problem is with you, not with the brand.

An artfully constructed response.

[njlam]

Originally Posted by kopi-c

AD are not really the problem per se.

If Rolex HQ could/wanted to end the flipper and resale/grey dealer /scalpers they can but will not.

An example might be that a new watch warranty are non transferable and register only one name/owner at point of sale.

I would be completely fine with the warranty being non-transferable and only available to the original owner. This would really limit the use of SS Daytonas as money laundering vehicles.

[Harry-57]

Originally Posted by njlam

I would be completely fine with the warranty being non-transferable and only available to the original owner.

The warranty must accompany the product but there are ways of tuning it. By way of an example of something similar but less draconian, in the UK Naim Audio offer a 2 year warranty which is transferable. The first owner has the option of registering for a 3 year extension (making five years in total) which is not transferable.

[codecow]

It used to be fairly easy to walk into a store and get anything you wanted that wasn’t a steel Daytona or off catalogue. Most pieces (except for those mentioned) sold BNIB on the gray market for under MSRP.

It was even possible to buy new from an AD with a discount.

Would you say there is more or less demand for their products now? I’d say there is higher demand. As much as people complain when they get a call to buy something that is literally free money then guess what they’re happy about it.

[BroncoOne]

OPs assumption that the grey market listings are actually watches that the seller has on hand is mostly mistaken. Other than trusted sellers that carry inventory, most of the listings, particularly the most over priced, are by people who will try to source the watch to resell if they get a buyer who wants to pay the inflate price.

You will read stories onTRF an out delays in getting watches bought online. If the seller actually owned the watch that you just bought, you should have it the next business day, the next one after that at worst. It’s because once they lock in the buyer, they’re have to scramble to but the watch for less than the price obtained

Don’t get me started on listings where the price is too good to be true. It is.run away

[enjoythemusic]

The 'problem' is supply versus demand.

Ferrari had / has this problem, and Mr. Enzo Ferrari was... so a guy called Lamborghini started his brand of cars.

So njlam, sounds like it is time you create and sell your own brand of timepieces. What name brand will your timepieces sell under? How long until you think you can get it all up and operating? Please ensure your brand's after-sales service is top-notch too, thanks.

[bluestreak]

Originally Posted by njlam

I would be completely fine with the warranty being non-transferable and only available to the original owner. This would really limit the use of SS Daytonas as money laundering vehicles.

Don’t think this is legal in a lot of places

[bluestreak]

Originally Posted by njlam

At this point, I find it humiliating to go into an AD, knowing they receive dozens of watches a month, yet choose not to sell me one. I wonder if others feel similarly?

If you find it “humiliating” that someone won’t sell you a luxury watch, that’s on you, not the AD


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[JonnyOld Boy]

The Problem is the "Emperor's New Cloths Syndrome" ....

Customers have, in recent years, been hankering after something that is more than the sum of its parts in their minds.

The watches, after all, are just nice, mass produced common items.
There is nothing "exclusive" about owning a Rolex , yet people seem to think otherwise.

I once pointed out the frankly lazy finishing on the underside lugs of a 2019 Submariner Date to an owner and the response was predictable : " Ah , yes , but at the end of the day, I own a Rolex ".

Rolex are nice watches. Some of them are very nice. But they are not any more exceptional in reality than the other mass produced watches in their price bracket.

A lot of "shallow buyers" [ as a watch commentator recently put it ] are pulling back from Rolex buying simply because "everyone seems to have one now".

Malaga Airport is evidence of this every spring when you see your corporate and chaps golfing holiday arrivals shuffling through immigration all with their Roleys earned by their last sales commission .....

I have never seen so many Rolex watches in my life to be honest.

But I think the tide is turning and the Brand will slowing return to the true watch enthusiasts , those that appreciate them for what they are.

I am an optimist and still a great fan of this brand.

[thenewrick]

I have no problems with AD's or Rolex. If the AD likes you, you get watches. If they don't, you don't. I've gotten what I've asked for with no spend history and a modest wait. My AD has been nothing but courteous and open with info.

I agree with other posters that the problem is with customers. And it's not even a problem in my mind.

I think people need to have some introspection and ask themselves why they want white dial Daytonas and Pepsis right now and don't want to wait.

[Calatrava r]

Originally Posted by soxfan39

Seems pretty straightforward to me what's going on. AD's bundling slow moving pieces along with hot sellers to Grey's. Grey's get the hot pieces that sell for over MSRP and then sell the slow moving stuff under retail. AD gets to move lots more inventory thereby maximizing profit.

ADs selling to the used market is really just an internet myth. ADs can sell everything to their own customers why sell to other vendors. Retail customers sell to the used market.

[thenewrick]

Originally Posted by JonnyOld Boy

The Problem is the "Emperor's New Cloths Syndrome" ....

Customers have, in recent years, been hankering after something that is more than the sum of its parts in their minds.

The watches, after all, are just nice, mass produced common items.
There is nothing "exclusive" about owning a Rolex , yet people seem to think otherwise.

I once pointed out the frankly lazy finishing on the underside lugs of a 2019 Submariner Date to an owner and the response was predictable : " Ah , yes , but at the end of the day, I own a Rolex ".

Rolex are nice watches. Some of them are very nice. But they are not any more exceptional in reality than the other mass produced watches in their price bracket.

A lot of "shallow buyers" [ as a watch commentator recently put it ] are pulling back from Rolex buying simply because "everyone seems to have one now".

Malaga Airport is evidence of this every spring when you see your corporate and chaps golfing holiday arrivals shuffling through immigration all with their Roleys earned by their last sales commission .....

I have never seen so many Rolex watches in my life to be honest.

But I think the tide is turning and the Brand will slowing return to the true watch enthusiasts , those that appreciate them for what they are.

I am an optimist and still a greta fan of this brand.

I disagree with a lot of this. Rolex is quite exclusive and more premium than almost all other watches out there. Just because you run in a wealthy crowd where it isn't considered top tier that doesn't mean in the grand scheme of things it isn't a very premium luxury good. Rolex specs and build quality are still top notch.

[Dave O]

Originally Posted by njlam

I've answered your question and I think you choose not to acknowledge it. People have money budgeted for watches, and with Rolex's unattainability, a larger percentage of that budget goes to other watch manufacturers. In addition to this lost market share, the resentment and overall bad feelings engendered are not corporate assets, they are liabilities. Your blind love for the brand may not allow you to see this.

You have also not answered any of the questions I have posed:

1. Why does Rolex facilitate independent ADs using their product to sell non-Rolex products? If Rolex products sell themselves (and they sell everything they make), why do they want/need to do this? The AD seems more like an unnecessary step in the distribution process.

2. If ADs are so honest, how come so many recently sold Rolex watches are available on the grey market? Are flippers so hard to identify?

Regardless of your answers, in my case, the AD experience has made the universe of Rolex watches I want smaller rather than larger. The hassle is just not worth it; this is because I love watches, not just Rolexes. I suspect your watch interests may be more narrow than mine.

While there are a few more Rolexes I would like to own, I am not sitting by the phone. FWIW, I just ordered a Laine, who is an independent watchmaker based in Switzerland (annual production ~200 pieces with only two models offered) who told me my watch should be ready in July…the reason for the wait is because all Torsti Laine’s watches are made to order…It is nice to work directly with the watchmaker with no ADs involved.

Its possible your tolerance for AD BS is just higher than mine...

I detest flippers as much as you do. But in reality, even though you think it's a large number, in the overall scheme of things the percentage of watches that goes to flippers vs. the average customer is a tiny number. Rolex sells over 1.2m watches a year. If even 10k watches were flipped, this is less than 1% of total amount of watches produced. Are there some bad apples - yes. But in the end the number is very small.