Calling all vintage dial experts: What's with my 1675?

[grantmax]

Hey all,

Something has been bugging me about the dial on my newly acquired 1675. I'm turning to you to hopefully put my fears to rest.

Pictures of the dial are below. What's with the hour markers?

• "4" and "8" appear to be smudging or running. It's symmetrical so I'm hoping there's a reasonable explanation.

• "7" appears to be half-patina with "6" headed the same way. This makes more sense and alleviated my concerns initially.

The previous owner was a real RSC guy and I seriously doubt he messed with the dial. But still. The question remains - Nobody would dare "paint" the markers ... RIGHT?!






And while we're at it, this is a service bezel ... correct?

[soundserious]

Ehhh others will chime in but looks like a prior relume to me

[grantmax]

Originally Posted by soundserious

Ehhh others will chime in but looks like a prior relume to me

That was my initial fear. However, there is no glow whatsoever from the dial.

Is there a process to get back to the original markers if this dial has truly been relumed?

[Paul]

Pity cos what otherwise looks like a nice dial otherwise is knackered now.
Can it be fixed .... a more skilled watchmaker could improve on it but it will always be a relumed dial.
That affects the value and saleability of your watch.


Perhaps you could revisit how the watch was described to you and have a chat to the seller.
Would be difficult for any seller (including yourself one day) to argue that it's .... all original ... or anything similar

You didn't want to hear that but you did ask

[grantmax]

Originally Posted by Paul

Pity cos what otherwise looks like a nice dial otherwise is knackered now.
Can it be fixed .... a more skilled watchmaker could improve on it but it will always be a relumed dial.
That affects the value and saleability of your watch.


Perhaps you could revisit how the watch was described to you and have a chat to the seller.
Would be difficult for any seller (including yourself one day) to argue that it's .... all original ... or anything similar

You didn't want to hear that but you did ask

Thanks for the feedback. It's not always about getting the answer you want.

The seller was a real freak about the watch. If this dial was relumed, it would have been done in 1988. That seemed unlikely to me upon initial consideration.

Are there any other explanations for this dial?

[joe100]

You have a couple option.

You could find an original dial but it will be several hundred dollars or send it to the RSC and get a service dial. You will have to surrender your current dial in parts exchange. I'd go with option One myself

[grantmax]

Originally Posted by joe100

You have a couple option.

You could find an original dial but it will be several hundred dollars or send it to the RSC and get a service dial. You will have to surrender your current dial in parts exchange. I'd go with option One myself

Agreed. If this truly is a relumed dial, I'll be swapping it for an original rather than a service dial.

I should mention that I have RSC receipts from 1998 and 2008. No mention in the papers about the lume or note about the dial being treated. Also, no recommendation by Rolex to change the dial.

Does this impact the consensus in any way?

[magnetized]

relume, best option return the watch and hunt for another one..

[Kingair]

Maybe it is Whiteout . . . .

Return to sender . . . .

It would hurt my eyes each time looking at the watch . . .

Just my .02

[grantmax]

As requested, close up pictures are below.

[Paul]

This watch is a (lovely) gilt 5513 that Jacek (HQMilton) has for sale just now. Another era of production so the lume texture is quite different.
The pic does however show how the lume fits neatly within the boundaries of each plot stamped on to the dial.

In the early days, lume was manually applied - women with steady hands and a paint-brush. The manual process meant there was a margin for variation from plot to plot. So, dials were checked before installation and those deemed unacceptable were rejected.

By the time your dial was made I'm thinking lume application had been mechanised resulting in lot more uniformity across the plots. If you study the plots on your dial with a loupe or a USB microscope and see great variation in texture across the plots ... and perhaps tell-tale brush marks .... then it's a relume. I'd expect on an all-original watch that the lume on hands and plots should perhaps be a closer match than we see on your watch too but (to be contrary) variations there are sometimes seen.

[grantmax]

Originally Posted by Paul

This watch is a (lovely) gilt 5513 that Jacek (HQMilton) has for sale just now. Another era of production so the lume texture is quite different.
The pic does however show how the lume fits neatly within the boundaries of each plot stamped on to the dial.

In the early days, lume was manually applied - women with steady hands and a paint-brush. The manual process meant there was a margin for variation from plot to plot. So, dials were checked before installation and those deemed unacceptable were rejected.

By the time your dial was made I assume that the application of lume had been mechanised resulting in lot more uniformity across the plots. If you study the plots on your dial with a loupe or a USB microscope and see great variation in texture across the plots ... and perhaps tell-tale brush marks .... then it's a relume. I'd expect the lume on your hands to be a closer match to the plots on an all-original watch too but variations between hands and plots are sometimes seen.

Thanks for the detailed response! I can tell you that the hands have been replaced. So that comparison won't help us much here.

I just spoke to the seller via phone who assured me that the watch was not relumed during his ownership ('98-2014). The original owner had the watch serviced in 1998 at RSC in New York. Again, it would sound strange that an owner would send the watch to an RSC for service and pay for such a clumsy relume job. Strange, but not impossible.

The "7" marker might hold the answer. You can see how half of it is "yellow patina".

[springer]

I would lean toward it being relumed. Here are three photos of the Mark V, GMT dial.

[Vincent65]

re-lume

[skprd13]

Originally Posted by springer

I would lean toward it being relumed. Here are three photos of the Mark V, GMT dial.

Hey John,
Great pics my friend! Been putting some miles on your bike this summer?
Aloha,
Tom

[grantmax]

Great. Thanks for the info guys.

I'll be posting an "options" thread tomorrow once I get some more information.

[springer]

Originally Posted by skprd13

Hey John,
Great pics my friend! Been putting some miles on your bike this summer?
Aloha,
Tom

Yes, I just rode up to Sturgis a couple weeks ago in the company of my GMT 16750.

[CrownMe]

No doubt a re lume imo. The seller is either not being honest or is just completely ignorant.

[GGGMT]

Gnarly relume. Doesn't look like service dial to me. I'd return watch to seller invest in original dial