Is there a brand that you think is superior to Patek Philippe?

[fmc000]

Indeed.

[KarlS]

Originally Posted by HorologyK

Can't believe this thread is still open.

its like a bad penny...i am just waiting for someone to start posting the movement macro shots again!!

[belligero]

^
Is somebody forcing you to read it? ;)

There are literally thousands of other threads here from which to choose, featuring such stimulating topics as:

"I am apparently incapable of using a search engine and/or making decisions on my own: Free advice required."
"I successfully managed to exchange money for things: Congratulate me!"

It seems that these two broad categories account for 90% of what passes for content on watch forums. I find the typically-resulting threads to be rather meaningless and vacuous, yet somehow I've never felt compelled to repeatedly mention that in one of them.

[josephashburnnn]

Originally Posted by HorologyK

Can't believe this thread is still open.

Because until now, no one can prove that any other brand(s) is more superior than Patek Philippe.

[KarlS]

Originally Posted by belligero

^
Is somebody forcing you to read it? ;)

There are literally thousands of other threads here from which to choose, featuring such stimulating topics as:

"I am apparently incapable of using a search engine and/or making decisions on my own: Free advice required."
"I successfully managed to exchange money for things: Congratulate me!"

It seems that these two broad categories account for 90% of what passes for content on watch forums. I find the typically-resulting threads to be rather meaningless and vacuous, yet somehow I've never felt compelled to repeatedly mention that in one of them.

it wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't the same rehash of stuff that has come up hundreds of threads earlier...how many more times must i say ALS is like a hockey puck!!

[Daycruiser]

Horology is more art than science, there could not and never will be a set of objective criteria to judge a brand's supposed superiority. Sure set techniques and mechanical technology are applied across the board, but the finishing, styling and flare of each brand must be given due consideration. These factors boil down to personal taste and is by nature subjective.

Patek certainly has heritage, which means 30 years down the line we can expect the brand to remain at the very top tier of haute horology. FP Journe is gorgeous, it's finishing a touch above Patek, in fact I would go to say a whole level above Patek. A Lange und Sohne is equally impressive, but their designs are even more conservative and their refusal to issue a sports watch when the market seem to be thirsty for them makes Lange too niche a brand to be compared to Patek.

Other independent makers appeal only to a small segment of the market, dedicated wealthy WIS, and as such is too niche of a market. It's like comparing a Pagani Zonda MD to the latest Lambo, one brand is relatively obscure whilst the other is highly recognisable by the majority of the population.

This thread will never conclude with a definitive answer, but who cares, the discussion here has been interesting and passionate, doesn't matter that we are going nowhere, it's the journey that counts.

[PJ S]

Originally Posted by KarlS

Sadly who am I to argue with Mr Dufour...he is the god father of independant watchmaking!!! He does think that the Seiko Credor is on par with AP which is a small consolation for PP fans....i think he may even have consulted to Seiko

A number of Credor watchmakers did indeed spend time with Philippe, learning how to hone the technique of mirror polishing beveled edges, with a bit of a stick.
Turned out, after a fair bit of searching, Japan had a native tree with similar properties to that which the Swiss use.

[PJ S]

Originally Posted by belligero

There are literally thousands of other threads here from which to choose, featuring such stimulating topics as:

"I am apparently incapable of using a search engine and/or making decisions on my own: Free advice required."
"I successfully managed to exchange money for things: Congratulate me!"

It seems that these two broad categories account for 90% of what passes for content on watch forums. I find the typically-resulting threads to be rather meaningless and vacuous, yet somehow I've never felt compelled to repeatedly mention that in one of them.

If we didn’t have the terminally lazy and the needy approvalists, the forums would be bereft of content!

[belligero]

Originally Posted by PJ S

If we didn’t have the terminally lazy and the needy approvalists, the forums would be bereft of content!

On the plus side, the signal-to-noise ratio would be vastly improved.

There's still insightful commentary and useful knowledge to be had on watch forums if you look hard enough, but it tends to get lost and drowned in a flood of low/no-information posting.

The advent of mobile devices that allow the pecking out of borderline-illiterate non-sequiturs on a tiny screen at any time probably hasn't helped the average-post-quality situation, either — though their quantity has certainly increased.

[martinr]

Maybe you guys can stop criticizing Patek and talk about what's wrong with the forum for another 15 pages. What's Phillipe Dufours favorite forum?

[Daycruiser]

Originally Posted by belligero

On the plus side, the signal-to-noise ratio would be vastly improved.

There's still insightful commentary and useful knowledge to be had on watch forums if you look hard enough, but it tends to get lost and drowned in a flood of low/no-information posting.

The advent of mobile devices that allow the pecking out of borderline-illiterate non-sequiturs on a tiny screen at any time probably hasn't helped the average-post-quality situation, either — though their quantity has certainly increased.

Most the time we are simply patting each other on the back, justifying each other's purchase of exorbitantly priced pieces of horology. It's basically perpetuating a hopeless addition.

This is AA in reverse. But hey, at least we are hurting our wallet and not our body.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[PJ S]

Originally Posted by belligero

On the plus side, the signal-to-noise ratio would be vastly improved.

There's still insightful commentary and useful knowledge to be had on watch forums if you look hard enough, but it tends to get lost and drowned in a flood of low/no-information posting.

The advent of mobile devices that allow the pecking out of borderline-illiterate non-sequiturs on a tiny screen at any time probably hasn't helped the average-post-quality situation, either — though their quantity has certainly increased.

I generally just use noise-cancelling earphones...

[PJ S]

Originally Posted by martinr

Maybe you guys can stop criticizing Patek and talk about what's wrong with the forum for another 15 pages. What's Phillipe Dufours favorite forum?

Very witty, Martin – so you recently got a SOH (sense of humour), and didn’t put up an “incoming” thread to announce its arrival?
Will this be a daily SOH, or a special occasions only one?

[martinr]

Originally Posted by PJ S

Very witty, Martin – so you recently got a SOH (sense of humour), and didn’t put up an “incoming” thread to announce its arrival?
Will this be a daily SOH, or a special occasions only one?

Probably only special occasion (limited edition) otherwise I run the risk of overproduction.

[PJ S]

^
Wise decision – use it in good health, etc, etc.

[lapince]

Originally Posted by PJ S

Very witty, Martin – so you recently got a SOH (sense of humour), and didn’t put up an “incoming” thread to announce its arrival?
Will this be a daily SOH, or a special occasions only one?

[scrappy]

Originally Posted by belligero

^
Is somebody forcing you to read it? ;)

There are literally thousands of other threads here from which to choose, featuring such stimulating topics as:

"I am apparently incapable of using a search engine and/or making decisions on my own: Free advice required."
"I successfully managed to exchange money for things: Congratulate me!"

It seems that these two broad categories account for 90% of what passes for content on watch forums. I find the typically-resulting threads to be rather meaningless and vacuous, yet somehow I've never felt compelled to repeatedly mention that in one of them.

Truth. Although I do understand the enthusiasm that new watch owners feel and their urge to share.

[kunlun]

Originally Posted by PJ S

I generally just use noise-cancelling earphones...

The Patek of earphones: https://nobleaudio.com/en/

[KarlS]

Originally Posted by PJ S

I generally just use noise-cancelling earphones...

Bose?

[josephashburnnn]

Originally Posted by martinr

What's Phillipe Dufours favorite forum?

And who is this Dufours fellow again? Some relative of rolex ceo?

[fmc000]

Originally Posted by josephashburnnn

And who is this Dufours fellow again? Some relative of rolex ceo?

Only the best watchmaker in the world...

http://dufourwatches.free.fr/

[KarlS]

Originally Posted by fmc000

Only the best watchmaker in the world...

http://dufourwatches.free.fr/

The god father of horology and the independents with the finest movements in the world honed by producing exactly the same watch 200 times over a 10 year period! Never produced a chrono nor an automatic watch and can't do a 40 mm version of Simplicity as he would need to change the movement. So you are basically forced to buy a 34 or 37 mm (can never remember the production run) with a dial done by 3rd party and the plates! It's called Simplicity as it's simply boring!! For that privilege you do get the best polished movement known to horoligy with beautiful Devils horns but sometimes I have to wonder if there is more to a watch at over £140 000 and if we do t sometimes just buy our own hype! Shoot me down and no I have never held a Dufour nor will probably ever get the chance considering he has made 500 his whole life! Don't forget he wears a Datograph which he advertises at every opportunity!

[martinr]

Maybe not a Simplicity but the Vingt-8 by Voutilainen is a time only platinum watch and it is bespoke, for approximately 80K USD you place your order and 16 weeks later the watch is done. That's about as long as it takes Patek to do a warranty repair! Is it better than a Patek? I'm not sure.

[moonwolf]

Superior is a hard to define term to me..

I think Lange has more visually pleasing finishes and Rolex has better quality movements (technically). And, to me Dufour is THE GRAIL.

Yet, I think Patek still is the most prestigious brand in general terms of things.

[fmc000]

Originally Posted by KarlS

The god father of horology and the independents with the finest movements in the world honed by producing exactly the same watch 200 times over a 10 year period! Never produced a chrono nor an automatic watch and can't do a 40 mm version of Simplicity as he would need to change the movement. So you are basically forced to buy a 34 or 37 mm (can never remember the production run) with a dial done by 3rd party and the plates! It's called Simplicity as it's simply boring!! For that privilege you do get the best polished movement known to horoligy with beautiful Devils horns but sometimes I have to wonder if there is more to a watch at over £140 000 and if we do t sometimes just buy our own hype! Shoot me down and no I have never held a Dufour nor will probably ever get the chance considering he has made 500 his whole life! Don't forget he wears a Datograph which he advertises at every opportunity!

Did you miss that Dufour was the first man EVER to make a grand-strike wristwatch? The first wristwatch that chimes the passing hours and quarters, in 1992.

C'mon guys, let's just be serious. I understand that the Datograph thing is given more importance that it probably has but limiting Dufour to just what you wrote is simply ridicolous.

[josephashburnnn]

Originally Posted by martinr

Maybe not a Simplicity but the Vingt-8 by Voutlainen is a time only platinum watch and it is bespoke, for approximately 80K USD you place your order and 16 weeks later the watch is done. That's about as long as it takes Patek to do a warranty repair! Is it better than a Patek? I'm not sure.

Holy sh*t! 80K for a time only watch? It must have come with a lifetime concierge service!

[KarlS]

Originally Posted by martinr

Maybe not a Simplicity but the Vingt-8 by Voutlainen is a time only platinum watch and it is bespoke, for approximately 80K USD you place your order and 16 weeks later the watch is done. That's about as long as it takes Patek to do a warranty repair! Is it better than a Patek? I'm not sure.

Certainly a more interesting dial and the same hands!

[KarlS]

Originally Posted by fmc000

Did you miss that Dufour was the first man EVER to make a grand-strike wristwatch? The first wristwatch that chimes the passing hours and quarters, in 1992.

C'mon guys, let's just be serious. I understand that the Datograph thing is given more importance that it probably has but limiting Dufour to just what you wrote is simply ridicolous.

Oh grief i apologies...please ignore everything I wrote!! He did something great 28 years ago and then produced a succession of very boring but finely executed time only watches! But he has recently done something with Greubel Forsey and Seiko!!

[martinr]

A few days ago I was at a watch dealer and he has Greubel Forsey. He showed me a 500K example, said he'd sold four to the same guy in the last six months, it was huge, weighed a ton, and wasn't exactly attractive, not something I'd want to wear at any price. It may be a watchmaking tour de force etc. have fantastic finishing and all that but I like my Patek 5905P more. So what's better?

[KarlS]

Originally Posted by martinr

A few days ago I was at a watch dealer and he has Greubel Forsey. He showed me a 500K example, said he'd sold four to the same guy in the last six months, it was huge, weighed a ton, and wasn't exactly attractive, not something I'd want to wear at any price. It may be a watchmaking tour de force etc. have fantastic finishing and all that but I like my Patek 5905P more. So what's better?

Spot on!! I tried on 2 in Dubai and they did nothing for me, but like RM but sometimes we buy into the ideal! The emperor and his clothes sometimes!